Next Week - Come, See and Buy Cichlids Never Before Availab

[Dovii]

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On 7/23/2002 1:48:21 AM

how much and what size jason????


rgds
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All depends on availability at the time of ordering. My supplier's price can change with the availability of his stock. Just like crops, if there's a bumper harvest, price will drop. Based on his price the last time I ordered from him, be prepared to pay about $90-$100 for a specimen of 2.5"+, assuming there's no attrition during shipment.

Blue Dempseys grow to 8" in length. You can see what they look like and read something about them at this site.

[huaikong]

i tink its around the same price at the taiwan shop.btw the internet offerd usd35 of 1.very ex for the fish.cant understand?it is really that rare????



rgds

[foxemty]

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On 7/23/2002 11:47:00 PM

i tink its around the same price at the taiwan shop.btw the internet offerd usd35 of 1.very ex for the fish.cant understand?it is really that rare????



rgds
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if i'm not wrong its a relatively new fish introduced into the hobby, maybe just a few years unlike the original dempsey.

[eZion]

Dovii, I heard that the blue JD is a hybrid, is that true?

[lsz]

i thought it is a colour "modification" ?

anyway it is not natural looks too fake to me.

[Dovii]

There have been much debate even amongst the experts as to whether the Blue Dempsey is a new species, mutant, or man-made hybrid. Anyway, there is an article which goes into much details over the origin of the Blue Dempsey which I reproduced in full below. According to the author, the Blue Dempsey is a colour morph. Whether or not you believe what is written is up to you as I can't possibly vouch for the article's authencity. It makes for interesting reading anyway.

"Blue Jack Dempsey
by Marcelo Casacuberta

I remember my first acquaintance with the hottest novelty in the South American fish trade: the blue Jack Dempsey. It was at a small fish exhibition in Uruguay, and a young pair was shown in a 25-gallon tank.

My first impression was that they were misplaced among other freshwater tanks, since they seemed to be reef fish, so strong was their bright turquoise color. That was back in 1986, and since then this fish has occasionally been available, but always in limited numbers. No one seemed to know who was breeding them (although it was said that they came from Argentina), and the few people who tried to get a successful spawn from them (including myself) faced complete failure.

Even when the eggs hatched, the feeble fry were never able to swim, dying after a couple of days. The blue Jack Dempsey slowly acquired a legendary status, and speculations started to flow. Was it a new species, a mutation, or a sterile hybrid from two different species? The situation was much like what happens today with the blood red parrot. I had to wait more than a decade to meet Mr. Hector Luzardo, the man we could call the creator of this colorful morph, to find out the real story behind this unusual fish.

It all started in 1985 when Mr. Luzardo received a mated pair of young Cichlasoma octofasciatum as a gift from a friend. They had already spawned in the community aquarium where they lived, but the eggs disappeared in a few hours. It was a nice pair of young adult fish, but they were nothing to write home about. As soon as they were installed in their own tank, they produced a huge spawn of about 2,000 eggs, and the fry were removed to another tank after the eggs hatched. When the fry were about 20 days old, Mr. Luzardo removed a couple of young fish that were floating in the tank, their fins ripped and many scales torn.
Their color seemed to be paler than usual, but he thought it was due to the missing scales. The next day there were about four fish in the same condition, and still more the day after. Soon it was clear that this was more than just the weaker fry being attacked by the tougher ones. There were some fish in the tank that looked and behaved very strangely.

A closer look revealed about one-fourth of the fry gathering in one corner, looking smaller and thinner than the rest of their siblings. They were immediately transferred to another tank. After a couple of weeks the pale creamy color of the young fish slowly turned into a bright turquoise blue, growing into something completely different from their parents. A whole new type of fish had arisen.

Having bred them for over ten years, it is now clear that color is only one of the differences. The blue Dempseys usually have a more elongated body, show more individual variations in the dot pattern, and lack the large lateral spot. They aren’t always hungry, as are the standard kind, and they grow slower, although they reach the same adult size in the end. They are also mild-tempered, but only if you compare them to regular Jack Dempseys. In fact, these fish are sometimes called the Pacific Dempsey by the local traders as a reference to their peaceful natures. In the local trade they have also been called blue Jack Dempseys, although turquoise would be a more accurate word to describe their color. Baby blue Dempseys are so lightly colored that it’s hard to notice when they have white spot, a disease they are prone to catch during their first four weeks. They are easily cured if kept at 90°F (32°C) for three to five day

[eZion]

Amazing

[lsz]

this article hasnt mentioned the source of the fish yet..

but it shows a lot of signs that possibly suggest heavy in-breeding and selective breeding behind this fish.
SUch as less robust built and to a certain extent, health. LEss competitive temperment that is uncharacteristic of this species..

THis occurs in many other fish too,
eg the red oscar, babies are less robust.
eg for betta, some colour variations have fertility rate that is lower than the rest...and immunity are constantly lower in certain colour forms such as melano black.

[Dovii]

The blue colour is the result of mutation in the genes. Such mutations could occur naturally or could be due to damage to the genes by external factors. Because more than one gene could have been affected, some mutations could be associated with other changes that could be either beneficial or detrimental to the animal. Those natural mutations that put the animal at a disadvantage would die out in nature due to the process of natural selection and the principle of survival of the fittest. It is only through the interference by man who deemed certain mutations as desireable esthetically that inferior mutations could survive on and multiply and this is likely the case with the Blue Dempsey.

The blue colour could be a natural mutation but it is associated also with a change in the body shape and an inherent weakness in the youngs if the genetic weakness is multiplied by breeding between 2 blue dempseys. Hence the only way to produce more Blue Dempseys successfully is to breed one with another which looked normal but has an unexpressed blue gene or even with a completely normal Jack Dempsey.

[lsz]

but is that possible ?

to get the "desired" blue dempsey by doing so ?

[Dovii]

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On 7/25/2002 3:12:29 AM

but is that possible ?

to get the "desired" blue dempsey by doing so ?

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That was exactly what was described in the article. A certain South American, Mr. Hector Luzardo, found the probably naturally occurring blue mutation by chance and propagated it despite its other less desireable weaknesses because he thought that the blue colour was esthetically desireable and that people would like to collect such a blue-coloured Jack Dempsey. This is also exactly how many other breeds of cats and dogs came to be accepted as separate breeds by enthusiasts. Many of the cat breeds started off as naturally occurring mutations eg the hairless Sphinx cat, American Curl and Scottish Curl cats, Devon Rex cat, etc. Some of these natural mutations are also associated with inherent gentic weaknesses. They happened to be noticed by the breeders who then propagated and promoted them until they were accepted by their countries' National Associations as approved breeds.

[lsz]

all along i thought spinx is an ancient breed ?

[Dovii]

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On 7/25/2002 9:47:59 AM

all along i thought spinx is an ancient breed ?
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No lah ! The Sphinx is proned to skin problems like dry skin, sunburns, etc due to the lack of protective hair and would never survive and propagate its genes in the wild without the help of man. It was propagated as a breed which is suitable for cat-lovers who are allergic to cat's hair and danders.

[lsz]

ok.

i thought it was some court cat or something

[huaikong]

those egyptian statue??[]


rgds

[lsz]

ha thats meant to be a joke

[foxemty]

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On 7/25/2002 2:46:33 AM


The blue colour could be a natural mutation but it is associated also with a change in the body shape and an inherent weakness in the youngs if the genetic weakness is multiplied by breeding between 2 blue dempseys. Hence the only way to produce more Blue Dempseys successfully is to breed one with another which looked normal but has an unexpressed blue gene or even with a completely normal Jack Dempsey.
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Surprisingly this "blue thing" had been associated with other animals, in some case its know as sapphire. Animals with this coloration tends to be weaker and smaller. Anyone into chinchillas genetics