Hi GUys, Marine convert, advices welcome!

[shamanking]

hi guys
i'm new to this forum and was referred to by a friendly fellow hobbyist named stephen

recently decided to give up on my marine set up and pursue planted tank instead due to intensive electrical bills.

intiallly wanted to go with a 2ft freshwater but stephen psychoed me to keep my tank...lol
i intend to keep my current tank with is a 5x2x2 tank with sump and internal overflow.

i hope to get some advice here before embarking on my journey.
1) since i'm converting over, is there any precautions i should take note of FOR EG. left over salt can cause problems.

2)what should i put in the sump? bioballs? ceramic rings? any advantages or disadvantages to either?

3)now basically my tank is well, as empty as a new one. i know i need co2 for sure (any recommendations on the diffuser for this?) i already have a return pump (aquabee3000). would i be needing anything else?

4)as for lighting, i have 2x200W of it. each is 10K lightings...too powerful?

i hope u guys can also throw in anything worth noting even though i've not wrote it down here. thank you very much guys!

[eddyq]

Hi and welcome to AQ,

Before you jump into freshwater maybe you could first read up the beginner's corner sticky posts. What you need now are the substrate, base fertislier, CO2 system, plants, driftwoods or rocks depending what kind of scape you intend to have.

Try using the search for 'sump tank' and learn more.

[benny]

Hi Shamanking,

Welcome to AQ!!

Most of the time, we hear freshwater converting to Marine, not often we hear the other way round!

BFG, our marine and equipment Moderator should be able to advice you on reusing your marine equipment. I think most of the think are reusable after a good clean scrub.

As for using the sump, it's common practice for those who believe in the Dupla school of thought. But in Singapore, most planted tank hobbyists prefer not to use it due to the excessive loss of CO2.

Cheers,

[shamanking]

hi guys
thanks for the prompt reply!
unfortunately benny, most of my marine equipment has been sold...so not much is left for reuse...but just as well, i got quite some spare cash to start the planted tank
actually i used to be a planted tank keeper, then i converted to marine after not having much success. that was 4 yrs back. but now rising electrical costs promted me to stop marine and come back to freshwater.
back then i didn't know about such forums where info is shared so my only source of info from the uncle below...and of course, his classical answer is "buy this and it'll solve your problems"
lol.
i didn't have much success then because somehow something went wrong...even hardy blue neon tetras started dying like flies no matter how i added them.

hi eddyq
i read up on substrate and i kinda narrowed it down to onyx or neutral gravel sand.however i'm not particularly sure on the exact differences other than the fact that onyx are more mineral packed. and i think most hobbyist would know no matter how much u read, it doesn't beat using it yourself so i hope anyone can contribute 1st hand knowledge on the advantages perhaps?

as for CO2 system, i read up and saw some things called "internal or external reactors". didn't know its so complicated...lol. back then i used to only have co2 tank, and the ceramic diffuser. i beleive these reactors are similar to the green long ones with black bioballs in them manufactured by dennerle?

[|squee|]

i beleive these reactors are similar to the green long ones with black bioballs in them manufactured by dennerle?

Yes, not only Dennerle but other brands commonly seen as well. The diffusor still works; it's just a different way of administering CO2.

[Goondoo]

hi guys
i'm new to this forum and was referred to by a friendly fellow hobbyist named stephen

recently decided to give up on my marine set up and pursue planted tank instead due to intensive electrical bills.

intiallly wanted to go with a 2ft freshwater but stephen psychoed me to keep my tank...lol
i intend to keep my current tank with is a 5x2x2 tank with sump and internal overflow.

i hope to get some advice here before embarking on my journey.
1) since i'm converting over, is there any precautions i should take note of FOR EG. left over salt can cause problems.

2)what should i put in the sump? bioballs? ceramic rings? any advantages or disadvantages to either?

3)now basically my tank is well, as empty as a new one. i know i need co2 for sure (any recommendations on the diffuser for this?) i already have a return pump (aquabee3000). would i be needing anything else?

4)as for lighting, i have 2x200W of it. each is 10K lightings...too powerful?

i hope u guys can also throw in anything worth noting even though i've not wrote it down here. thank you very much guys!

Hi shamanking,

Welcome to the forum.

I must emphasize I am definitely not one of those "pro" and I am also not one that likes to read alot.

However, it did cross my mind to have a IOS tank for the planted tank as I did saw some tanks by Mr. Amano using IOS. In my thoughts, I was thinking of running the IOS only after normal lighting hours to increase the O2 level.

Ideas still running wild at the moment....

[msmurf]

do something to your internal overflow or all your small fish will flow into the sump. maybe some netting will help?

[shamanking]

wow guys nice to see such fast and great response

1 thing i've read up on is the need for a chiller. most people set the temperature to 24-26. i used to set my chiller at 27, so the tank temperature varies from 27-29 with an averge of 28. this is kinda higher compared to the 24-26 that i've seen most freshwater people use.
is this temperature acceptable? i tihnk 24-26 with my chiller will certainly overwork the electricity bill lol

anyway, other than ceramic rings or bioballs and of course the return pump, anything else to be in the sump?

[BFG]

Hi ShamanKing!

1st up, what equipment do you have currently? It be more helpful if you could list what equipment you have in hand so I could advise what to use.

[shamanking]

ok no problem BFG (rohaizal)
currently
i have
5x2x2 main tank 10mm thick, 3ft sump(3 compartments)
1 aquabee 3000 pump which i intend to use through the chiller and to the main tank as the return pump.
2x250W mh lightings, 10kk and 15kk
resun cl650 chiller
1 sicce nova 1000L/hr small pump that was previously used for my FR for marine

actually, that's practically it...lol. the rest were marine equipment like skimmer and calcium reactor which i think were irrelevent so i sold them off

i'm all ears BFG!
anyway, just to spice up the mood abit, tell u guys about some silly thing, i was siphoning out the sand from my marine tank into the balcony and after some accumulate, i'll scoop them into a pail. unfortunately, some of the sand was washed down the drain in the balcony and now its choked! and to make it worse, below is the RC which my pipe runs into so the town council has been hindered in their efforts to call the RC for appointment to clear the choke. its been 2 days since...the little things that u never expect in life LOL

any advice on how to clean the tank effective to remove any salt traces?? i'm quite clueless besides the usual wipe with a wet cloth...

[BFG]

Where do I start?

You'll need a pressurised co2 set with an external co2 reactor. For filtration purposes, a Pro 3 external canister filter should suffice.

Since your pump has been used for a marine setup and you would want to give it a thorough cleaning, I would recommend you get the Deltec EZClean. This stuff is quite strong. I've read about it in Reef Central and is currently available here locally. You'll need to head down to the Deltec local distributor here ( Reef Depot ) to get yours. All you have to do is to add this into a container of water according to the dosage prescribed and leave your equipment in it for 2 hours. I was told that the water mixture will get warm. If it's possible, run the equipment in the container only after the 2hr soaking period to remove those coralline algae or salts deposit in those hard to reach area of the pump. Your pump should be able to work in as well as out of the water right?

I know that you will be using the Aquabee 3000 connected to the chiller and then to the main tank. But the next challenge is your sump. I have a lot of variable going through my head right now on how to use your sump. For me, I wouldn't add any filtration media in the sump itself as cleaning it would be a headache as well as it might smell as the sump is an open tank. A canister filter is ideal as you would only need to lugged it into the toilet to clean it for maintenance.

My next reply will indicate some of the ideas I have for the sump.

[BFG]

Since the sump is divided into 3 partition, I would assume that the 1st partition will be where the water flow from the tank. The 2nd partition would be where your former refugium was and the 3rd would be where the return pump is located. I have a similar 3ft sump for my marine tank ( still cycling ).

1 of my idea is that if you are using the Pro 3 as filtration, it's inlet hose should be placed in the 1st partition of the sump. The outlet should connect to a co2 external reactor and then back to the main tank ( or even to the 3rd partition of the sump if there was a problem of insufficient water volume getting there). The 2nd partition ( your former refugium area ) will be up to you to setup. You could add a light source to this area and use some species of floating plants or fast growing plants as a nutrient export, similar to how a marine tank would operate on. Or even use this area to breed some fish or even shrimps to be added to the main tank as their population increase. A grow out area if you may.

If you have a problem of heat being emitted by the 2x 250w MH, you could change it to a 4 or even 6x 80w HO T5. Should be sufficient for your planting needs. There's a calculator on the top right corner of this forum for your usage in regards to how many watts per gallon you are using as a light source.

As for salt creep, you might use vinegar to remove them. Those coralline algae on the tank wall would need to be scraped off 1st. You could spray a diluted amount of a vinegar with water mixture as I've read it somewhere in this forum.

The idea contributed here is not a 'must use' as it can be tweaked even further more as the final outcome should only be used if you are comfortable and understand how it is applied to your tank. If it's possible, post a few picture of the current tank here in it's current empty state. There might be a few more options for your tank.

[shamanking]

h5 BFG, many thanks for your great reply.
fast and clear too!

may i raise some points that i am concerned with with regards to your reply?
actually i think u've seen my tank before, i am also a fellow SRC brother
i'll post a photo of the tank once i've finally siphoned out all the salt water.
btw, my sump tank wasn't built for refugium so all three compartments are the traditional water-input-from-bottom, output from top of compartment

for using an external co2 reactor, may i ask what is that? cos so far i've only seen stuff such as the ADA diffuser or the dennerle long green type with bioballs inside, both of which are mounted internally.

2ndly, you said u dun recommend filter media in the sump and would recommend a canister filter instead.
i understand your rationale being stench and maintainence ease but actually i hope to reduce the costs of setting this up so i was wondering would there be anyway around the idea of the canister?
my idea of this is becos overall flow rate for planted tank is to be low, so my guess is dirt will accumulate in the first compartment due to lack of strong currents to carry them to the 2nd compartment. then, the ceramic rings can be put into a mesh bag and put in the 2nd compartment. so during water changes, i can siphon water with dirt through the 1st compartment along with the routine change of wool. if dirt slowly builds up in the 2nd compartment, i can simply put the bag somewhere else, and clean the whole sump. would this idea be viable? as it really helps save money on the canister.

lastly, on the issue of heat from mh, my future plan is simply a very natural filled with plants tank and tetras. so may i just check with u if 27 degree to 29 degrees (average of slightly lower than 28 most of the time)is acceptable? becos if it is ok then my mh would not be an issue as my chiller has proven to be able when i had my marine setup with md55, eheim 1262 and 1260 running 24/7. lol. now i have removed all with only 1 aquabee 3000 left. the reason i ask about temperature is becos we've all seen how website put tepmerature for corals etc to be below 27. but as most reefers know, its actually ok to be in the 27-29 region so i wonder if this is the case for freshwater too

hope u can enlighten me bro! nice to see u also in freshwater cheers

[BFG]

ShamanKing, I went over to SRC but couldn't locate your thread after going through 20 pages of SRC members tank thread. You could post a link in this thread if it's possible.

The external co2 reactor are actually a diyed version of a water purifier container, the stuff reefer are now using for their DI water. The container was modified as a co2 reactor. Search through the equipment section for a pic. A single item but with many uses. Since you still have the Sicce pump, it could be used to power the external co2 reactor.

About the filtration part, yes, you could forego the canister and use the sump as part of a filtration unit. I was highlighting more on the part of the smell and such as I did not want it to surprise you in the future as the tank mature. Since you would do some siphoning to prevent stuff from accumulating, I guess we got that area covered.

Temperature wise, 28 should be the max (imho) but also it depends on what type of critter you gonna keep. If you are going to keep some shrimps, you need to lower the temp to 26. Anything below 24 is just wastage of electrical usage.

[shamanking]

thank you very much for your advice BFG, its very helpful indeed.
actually my daddy has just returned from abroad and when i told him of my idea he disagreed.
he insisted i use the 2x1x1ft tank, that was previously used as the top up water reservoir for my marine tank, to keep freshwater, and get rid of the 5footer. he wans to free up space and time spent maintaining.

so sorry bfg for wasting your time addressing the 5footer when it might not even materialise.
2 footer, although will be cheaper, but i'm pretty sure its gonna be tougher as water parameter fluctuate much faster.
for such a small tank, issit possible to rely of diffusion of co2 from atmosphere instead of supplying the co2 instead since the volume is small?

[Goondoo]

http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134

[|squee|]

for such a small tank, issit possible to rely of diffusion of co2 from atmosphere instead of supplying the co2 instead since the volume is small?

It is possible, that means you will be going the non-CO2 route if you do not inject CO2. Some things are done differently in a CO2 tank; plant growth will be much slower too.