Melting crypts toxic?

[Justikanz]

Hi hi... I received a HUGE load of crypts on Sunday and they started to melt as I had left the whole lot floating. I tried to remove as much of the melting leaves and at the same time try to shorten some of the roots and then try to plant them or stuff them in between the existing crypts so they can adapt to the light and water conditions closer to where they eventually be planted.

After like half an hour, my arm that was in contact with the tank water start to feel extremely itchy and some areas seem to become reddish... A good wash with showergel soothes the skin thereafter...

Are melting crypts that toxic?

Do I need to make a big water change?

[budak]

Some people get the same thing when they touch cut open sections of Anubias too..... both groups are in the same family as dumbcane and yam >> higher levels of oxalic acid than most plants, so you get a similar itch if you are sensitive. But it's not serious unless you somehow kiss or lick the plant.

[vinz]

Heh... for the record the huge load of crypt was from me. Yeah, I get the itch too, and they don't have to melt to do that. During uprooting, I place them on the tank braces. I always make sure I avoid direct contact, other then with my hands. After I move them to another place, like a pail, and I continue work, if my arms touch the braces they were on, I'll soon get an itch. Washing with soap will always stop the itching.

[Shadow]

Just wondering does the toxic effect the tank occupant? shrimps, fish, snail, etc?

[GaspingGurami]

I wiped out my whole tank of cherry and CRS shrimps a year+ ago when I planted the whole tank full of crypts.

[Weirong]

Agreed. Shrimps are quite sensitive when it comes to Crypts melting.

Although I have never done any tests to confirm whether they alter any water parameters, I have wiped out whole tanks of shrimps before when introducing Crypts many years back.

[Justikanz]

So, recommended to perform a water change?

And will the melting affect the other already established crypts? Or will the water change (if large enough) cause them to melt...

[wasabi8888]

This is new to me...

Question: if i have a tank with cryptos which i used to breed apistos.. will the toxicity kill the fries?

[Quixotic]

I think this whole thing about crypt rot and shrimp deaths are merely by association, not scientifically proven. BTW, this is not to discount the possibility or to doubt the aquarists account.

It is mentioned that the Araceae family of plants contain oxalate. Anubias and Cryptocoryne belong to this family. Oxalate is mentioned as being toxic to shrimps in the post here, http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...html#post51029

Oxalate should not be very dangerous, except in high concentrations. Oxalate works by tying up calcium and depriving the organism of calcium. If you lived on a 100% diet of spinach, you could get into trouble, because you would get enough oxalate to tie up nearly all the calcium in your diet, and you would not absorb any. An occasional helping of spinach is no problem. The same should be true for shrimp.

Key points being, should not be very dangerous, except in high concentrations. I am not sure what is the context of the statement above, if this with reference to human beings or shrimps. For the matter of fact, isn't how dangerous and high concentration different between human and shrimps? Anyway, I have not seen any other literature regarding the effects of oxalate on shrimps, so I am still undecided on this.

In any case, one thing I do know is there are no reported affects on fishes. So it should really be safe for fishes, otherwise you would have seen mass reports by aquarists of fish deaths by crypt rot.

If there is indeed a large amount of crypt rot, it may also be due to the fact that it pollutes water and deterioate the water quality. Once the water quality suffers, sensitive creatures will suffer too.

So all in all, just excercise caution and do not over react. I think this post here, http://www.petshrimp.com/discussions...hp?p=5834#5834 sums it up pretty good.

BTW, I have a practice of doing large amounts of water changes whenever I plant or rearrange something. You never know what could be leeched into the water in the process and water changes help to reduce their effects.

So, recommended to perform a water change?

And will the melting affect the other already established crypts? Or will the water change (if large enough) cause them to melt...

How much is the rot affecting the crypts? If it is a lot, I would suggest remove as much of the rotten leaves as possible and do a water change. Keep up with the removal of rotten leaves daily without water changes until the rot slows down.

Not sure if the melting will directly affect other established crypts but anytime there are changes to your tank, they may rot a little here and there.

[celticfish]

dang... i guess this came too late to save the last few batches.
i just trimmed my crypt forest back and now the shrimpies are clustering aroung the filter intake.
sure sign something is wrong and was wondering what happened.
water change time...

btw i cut back the size by uprooting then water change.
a couple of days later i trimmed the leave aggressively.
this is when i notice the clustering of the shrimps.
i suppose the cut end is leaching acids to alter quality?

thanks guys!