Reply With QuoteLily pipes diffuse the output stream in an irregular manner. They are not comparable to the rainbar which is a different thing altogether.
Hi guys,
I'm using an Eden 501 for my 1.5ft x 1ft x1ft tank via the rainbar outlet situated at slightly above middle back of tank.
Media-wise I'm using the packaged ceramic rings and sponge that came with the filter. Added a piece of filter wool on top of the ceamic rings as a pre-filter. The wool will be the first thing the water hits when it goes into the canister.
Its quite commonly experienced by many users of Eden 501, that despite its many good points, it does tend to clog up pretty quickly, which will reduce its flowrate quite significantly sometimes. This creates some dead spots for me in my tank. I'm trying not to add an additional small powerhead due to my tank's small size.
I'm toying with the idea of using the "lily-pipe" attachment (see below pic) as the outlet. It came packaged together with the filter as well. Hoping that this might increase the strength of the flowrate.
Attachment 3897
But anyway just for knowledge sake, would be good if anyone could advise on the effects of using this instead of the rainbar?
What would be the pros and cons of it against the rainbar?
Last edited by oblivion; 7th Aug 2007 at 01:00.
Lily pipes diffuse the output stream in an irregular manner. They are not comparable to the rainbar which is a different thing altogether.
so whats the pros and cons of lily pipe (as in the pic shown) versus rainbar as outlet for eden 501?
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I don't think about the pros and con. The item is built for a type of water flow and if you need that type of water flow the lily pipe is built for, you should use it. The rain bar however create another different type of water flow. You cannot compare these 2 together, they have a different usage.
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mind advising me on whats the different types of flow & the usage they are for that you are mentioning here?Originally Posted by BFG
I don't think about the pros and con. The item is built for a type of water flow and if you need that type of water flow the lily pipe is built for, you should use it. The rain bar however create another different type of water flow. You cannot compare these 2 together, they have a different usage.
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There are 3 types of flow that is available for aquarist.
The Jet Stream- This flow usually occur when water leave a tube. It has a pointed effect and generally the flow will occur further away depending on the speed of the pump or the canister filter. Placed higher in the tank and it will create a 'washing machine' effect, pushing water in a circular way. Putting it lower and what ever in it's path will be moved. This scenario depend on the speed of the pump or canister filter.
The Wall Of Water- This flow is being made by the rainbar. It will move water depending on how it is placed. Vertically, it will move water the height of the rain bar. But it's not even though, weak flow where the hole of the rainbar are on top while the higher flow will occur where the hole is at the bottomest part of the rainbar. Same effect if it's placed horizontally. However, if the rainbar holes are facing the aquarium wall, you will have sporadic flow.
The Wave- This flow is generated by the Eden 501 type 'Lily pipe'. There is a similar one larger than the Eden's but green in color. Not sure if the effect is similar with the ADA lily pipe but I'm sure the effect might be the same. Here's how it goes. Water leaving this unit will have a roll effect. If you can imagine those big waves rolling where surfer surf their surfboard. A bit similar smaller scale is happening. But the effect of this roll is not far. It only happens at the 'mouth' of this unit and it diminished as it gets farther away from the unit. Same as the big wave you see, it will lessen as it reach the beach. A fish have been suck in and thrown out again when I was using the larger green ones in my 3ft tank but the water flow in that tank suffer as the water did not circulate very well and a portion of my 3ft planted tank had stagnant areas, o2 bubbles just floated on top and fishes have to continually 'flash' their swimming fin to prevent sinking. This unit is good for diffusing water flow but you need to point it correctly in the tank.
Hope this helps!
Last edited by BFG; 13th Oct 2006 at 13:23.
If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.
good explaination!
and for instance, sliding the 'lily pipe' outflow above the waterline allows it to serve as an aeration which helps eliminates oily surface film.
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By aiming the horizontal rainbar at the water surface will also have the same effect like what richietay has mentioned
Jon
-- The beginning of a whole new world --
Just for inspiration, as it fits the thread: I had to cut the Eden's inlet pipe in half to use it in my 1.5ft. So I was left with about 13 cm of pipe with the same diameter of the rainbar.
So I drilled a few holes into the spare pipe part and use it as a "submerged 3D rainbar". Unlike a regular rainbar, the holes are drilled in different angles, and not completely random at that: One of the holes points to the surface giving it a little movement. The others point at different angles into the tank. So far I am pretty satisfied with the outcome. I wonder why there aren't such "submerged 3D spray bars" in the market, it works pretty fine.
Sorry for the bad photo, my camera is crapping out on me.
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Ankank, there are less people who are aware about flow and lesser the numbers who would experiment with their sets. A forum would benefit by letting their members know about such things. Once the brainstorming starts and more people exchange ideas would the business end take notice.
If you've learnt, teach, if you have, give.
Don't walk behind me as I might not lead, don't walk in front of me as I might not follow. Walk beside me, as my friend.
Mohamad Rohaizal is my name. If it's too hard, use BFG. I don't mind.
BFG,
that's exactly why I joined this forum which is quite a stretch from my home country. People here seem to be follow a more hands-on approach to aquaristics than in the usual "buy, turn on, forget" user forums. Which fits my approach. I recently turned down a friend who'd give me a much larger tank than my weenie 1.5ft for free because I felt that there was much more to discover, to learn, and to have fun with it. Even if it approaches my initial idea of how it should be by the day, my tank is not really elaborate compared to others. But at least I can say I (almost) completely understand what's going on in it.
wow thanks guys for all the helpful input.
reason why i started on this topic in the 1st place is cos i found some dead spots in my tank
im using the rainbar now situated at the back wall of the tank about 3/4 of the tank height up
so thats why i'm thinking of the 'lily pipe' outlet as a possiblilty to improve my water circulation.
other than that i don't really see where else i can situate my rainbar to have better circulation
at the side of tank instead of back? doesnt seem likely
Please note: A common mistake is mixing up current with circulation. Even if a spot doesn't have obvious current it can be well circulated. Watch closely for little particles floating, using a light source on the other side helps.
That setup didn't work out too well for me, but for other reasons. Aiming the rainbar outlet slightly to the front created a current that goes downwards on the front wall. This caused my fish to go into constant treadmill mode when swimming in the front in order to not get pushed downwards. Which made them look really akward. I really didn't pay much attention to whether it creates dead spots. But it is less than optimal in a way that it creates a broad stream from the back to the front and to the back again, but the inlet is only in one place along the back wall, so the other side is "uncovered".im using the rainbar now situated at the back wall of the tank about 3/4 of the tank height up
My suggestion would be for you to either use the lily pipe in one of the back corners, placing it upright (the flat side stands upright-ish, doesn't have to be exactly perpendicular). So that you get a flow like the the one I sketched below and a little surface movement. The filter inlet goes best in the other back corner then, catching and supporting the flow.
thanks for the graph
hmm but one thing is i always thought that lily pipes were used facing forwards rather than downwards
per your diagram wouldnt the downward water movement stir up the gravel?
n just for comparison's sake, amano's tanks seem to put both input n output on the same side tank wall
so what's the logic in that as against yours with input n output on different ends? not quite sure here.
n mind advising how u situate your rainbar?
Don't worry about the gravel, the Eden's output isn't strong enough to stir it up.
Input and output on the same side would work, too, I guess. As long as it creates a "round trip" for the circulation. Which a rainbar on the back side doesn't.
You will find my "custom output" a few posts up the page, with the photo. It isn't really a "rainbar" but rather an "output splitter". And it's positioned along the right side wall. My input is in the left back corner.
so i suppose if using a rainbar with the input on the same side wall will not create the "round trip" circulation
only works with the lily pipe?
Picture a stream that circulates around in a tank. A rainbar has many little streams that point in the same plane. In a 1.5ft the regular rainbar cannot be placed anywhere but along the back wall.
Try the lily pipe. Experiment with the stream it produces. You can't break anything.
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