Setting up a reef tank. Plse advise

**daniel** · 3rd Jan 2002, 14:50

Hi

Planning to set up a 3 ft reef tank. Can anyone advise me on the equipment needed, been reading up on some articles but without any conclusion.
Some say that a sump is required, some say a Eheim filter is sufficient and some say I need a denitrator, skimmer, berlin filter.....it's getting a bit confused.

Can anyone tell me what exactly do I need besides a tank, filter and lights.

Thx

**kelstorm** · 3rd Jan 2002, 23:15

Dear Malaysian,
B4 u start, i would like to inform u that the thickness of the glass should be ard 10mm due to the water pressure. mind u, saltwater is 'heavier' than Freshwater.
1.To me, Having a sump is a definite YES, however, some ppl do use Ehiem filters.(Models are 2222,2224,2226,2228,2227,2229). Sump are usually customised to work with your tank, using overflow system. Do invest in a good system coz that is the heart of the system.
2.Skimmer is definitely Yes. Dun have to get a very expensive one if u are cash strapped. A simple one will do just fine even though a more expensive and top of the range like Berlin and Tunza(recommended by some ppl here.) are the best in the trade.
3.Personally, i do not use a denitrator. A bit expensive and a bit skeptical abt the performance of it even though some ppl have experience using it and found it quite useful.
4.While personally, Metal Halide is the best for marine due to the number of kelvins in the spectum. It is very expensive when compared with Florescent. However, new technology have enable aquarists with limited budget to obtain similar lighting systems. (Use Interpet or Arcadia Tubes)
5.Let nature takes it course. When setting up, u must take note of the Nitrate process which can take up to 21 days.(U can cut short the process if u can obtain some sand from 'matured' tanks). Pls do not dump everything inside within a day. The system will collapse!!(Me learnt thru experience!!

)
Tell us what else u think u might need. Write up a list and post on the forum again.. we can discuss this again.. i'm sure that most of us here will be glad to help u.
For me, i would go for the biggest tank that i can afford coz i find my 4ft tank too small already.

It is a very expensive initial setup cost..sigh.. but u will enjoy it once it is set up.. hehehe
Kelvin

**Dan** · 3rd Jan 2002, 23:36

*laughing*

I understand your confusion... believe me I do... there is alot of conflicting information about marine systems, particularly when entering the realm of a reef system.

First off it is recommended that you design your reef system around the liverock that you purchased... but that itself isn't written in stone, but can make things a little easier for growth and for establishing as natural an environment as possible... so in other words, if you are stocking liverock from the indo-pacific region, then you should also try and stock fish and corals from the same region... as this will ensure a more natural environment, leaving little in conflicts with species and definitely a more natural source of nutrients.
Now as far as equipment required... unfortunately there are many opinions as you have obviously found for yourself.
A sump system is not absolutely necessary... but can help to promote better growth, and more effecient filtration. Most sump systems tend to use a skimmer within the system, but you can place a hangon skimmer if you prefer, but most systems with a sump/skimmer setup tend to provide better results.
In my opinon a canister filter is usually the most effecient type of system for a saltwater system, and Eheim are definitely the most reliable that I have used. For a 3ft tank you would more than likely be looking at an Eheim Pro II system.
Skimmers as I have mentioned earlier can be difficult, I use the Berlin system for my 300gal, but I use a hangon "Prism" skimmer in my sump system for my 80gal hex tank... so there are options... the Berlin systems are probably the most effecient... but in my opinion are really geared more towards a tank in excess of 100gallons, as they will create too much water movement in most smaller tanks... and there are some opinions out there that state that skimmers may actually remove too much nutrients & trace minerals from the water column... but you can buffer the water column with Kent additives to ensure that this is not the case... and for the most part skimmers are not really required in a system until about the 2nd month of running... my Berlin is on 24/7 for the 300gal, but my Prism in the sump for the 80gal is only on 3 days out of the week... and I am constantly testing the levels of minerals in both tanks to keep an eye on the levels, when too many minerals are taken from the water column, you will get die off, or at the very least poor growth as inverts tend to require theses minerals more than the fish... so in a reef tank a thorough series of test kits are required... most important testers other than nitrate/nitrite/ammonia & Ph... in my opinion are Phosphate/Calcium/Iodine/ and Iron testers... so those would be good to start with, and in future you may find the need for testers for other elements.
As far as a denitrifier... usually the liverock will provide this for you... but as the tank matures you may require a seperate system to accomplish this... but I know alot of reef keepers that do not use a seperate system for this, as their liverock is keeping on top of it. So I would save your money on this for now... keep testing your NO and if you find the levels are too high then you may wish to go this route... but I suspect that it will not be required until you are showing vigorous coral growth.
You mentioned that you realize the lighting requirements, the general rule for reefs is that you have somewhere between 4-6Watts/Gallon... so a good VHO or Metal Halide system will be recommended.

I recommend the following for starting:
Eheim canister filter
Ebo-Jager heater
I also recommend a Deionizer or Reverse Osmosis water filter for water changes... as it cuts down on water fluctuations following a water change.
1pound of liverock for every gallon
3-4" of aragonite substrate seeded with a couple pounds of livesand... I usually don't recommend DSB (Deep Sand Beds) over aragonite, and some will argue otherwise... but I have had better results with aragonite than a DSB.
Hangon skimmer either in conjunction with a sump or on its own. As I st

**kelstorm** · 4th Jan 2002, 00:23

Dan,
i hope that our contributions have not scared him off the hobby.. hehehe.. i heard that u are into seahorse breeding.. any success so far? i would love to have some of those skimmers that u have in the tanks.. so envy.. me is just but a poor student.. hehehe.. everything have to come with a budget..sigh..
Regards,
Kelvin[

]

**Dan** · 4th Jan 2002, 01:20

Well hopefully we have not scared him off... but saltwater keeping can be pretty daunting at first... and as you know very expensive to start... but after that the costs are minimal... and a well maintained saltwater tank is better than TV in my opinion. [

]

Well as far as the seahorses, yes... I was going to start a breeding tank... but after the WTC bombings, getting tank raised seahorses into Canada has been a nightmare... so I am still sitting on a 30gal tank with all the equipment, waiting for my LFS to get some decent seahorses in... so far no luck... but they told me that they should be getting some tank raised seahorses in for around February or March... so hopefully I can start then.
I refuse to purchase wild-caught seahorses, as they are almost on the endagered species list... and for the most part wild-caught will not breed successfully in a captive system... but tank raised will fare much better... so I am still waiting.

And I agree with you completely... everything comes with a price tag in this hobby...

**daniel** · 4th Jan 2002, 11:38

Dear Kelstorm and Dan

Thank you very much for you advice. It has been enlightening for me.
I didn't know that tank glass has to be at least 10 mm thick
From the tread, looks like I don't think I can afford this hobby.
I think keeping fishes willbe much more economical for me.

Thanks

**kelstorm** · 4th Jan 2002, 15:55

Malaysian, is there something wrong with your PC? how come u reply so many times??[

]
well, what is your initial budget? where u staying? perhaps we can meet up if u are in singapore and start up with your tank when u are ready....
Dan,
me do agree with u totally on the cost of maintenance in the later stages of keeping marine.. Btw, what canada u talking abt? u Canadian? if so, for a moment, i thought that we can experiment the breeding habits together in singapore.. sigh..

. Let me know when u started on it, ok? right now, me have to save up big time for the 6ftx2ft x2ft tank which my fiancee had wanted for the new place, so, i guess my seahorse dream would have to wait...hehehe[

]

**David** · 4th Jan 2002, 18:50

hi Malaysian

the additional duplicated posting has been deleted

hi Kelstorm

Dan is Canadian

**Cichlidae Medalodon** · 4th Jan 2002, 22:43

I quess there is no need to reply...

BTW, my nano tanks (2 @ the moment) are much more easier to take care of than my 125 FW!

**Dan** · 5th Jan 2002, 01:15

Nice to see ya CM! [

]

**Dan** · 5th Jan 2002, 01:17

kelstorm,

As David mentioned I am Canadian... but I will be sure to keep you posted when I get things up an running with the seahorses.

**Cichlidae Medalodon** · 5th Jan 2002, 01:34

It is amazing who you will meet (see) in a new forum!

Aloha Dan

**kelstorm** · 5th Jan 2002, 14:47

Thanks Dan,
once i set up my new 6ft tank.. probably in another yr or so..hahaha.. i take pics and show them ard in the forum.. btw, anybody knows how to attach files or pics in this forum? Thanks in advance
kelvin

**Spiff** · 5th Jan 2002, 17:55

yo kel,my fren once told me tt aquamart sells captive seahorses which eat frozen food instead of live wans(so damn troublesome)i think they r imported from austrilia or sumthing
so if his rite.....i might setup a 2ft x 2ft x 2ft seahorse tank in my room....after i get my teco chiller

**kelstorm** · 6th Jan 2002, 00:07

Spiff,
i read somewhere that the minimum size for seahorse is 3x2x2ft... so.. u might want to consider..
anyway, should u want to setup, let me know ok?? btw, i went to aquamart on friday but did not see any seahorses leh.. u mean the shop next to it? that is Reborn aquarium.. used to be in fish farm rd.
Kel

**Spiff** · 6th Jan 2002, 09:55

crap.......tts will the materials i hv left......ok i will let u know be4 i setup.
did u ask the guy at medic????cos i remembered tt i saw a small 2ft tank wif seahorses in it.........maybe must order wan[

]

**kelstorm** · 6th Jan 2002, 15:00

Dear Spiff,
perhaps i did not make myself clear.. [

] if u want to breed seahorses, the minimum size is abt 3x2x2ft.. if not, just a 2x2x2ft will do...to have a species tank.. looking forward to your msg, sms or email, asking me to help in the setup..hehehe... here, wishing u success in advance..
kelvin

**pygocentrus** · 6th Jan 2002, 16:05

Kelvin...how's life? des here...SIM, adrian's fren. anyway, saw seahorse b4 at havelock, but dun think they bring in regularly.

spiff, now u also beo-ing seahorse har, mermaid want?

**Spiff** · 6th Jan 2002, 21:38

wah pygo

if u got mermaid i wan leh....kee kee......no lar jus considerin cos i got xtra 2ft cube.....

i only wan captive horses cos i really dun wanna hatch brine shrimps every few days....[

] hahah kel if u goin to setup wan u tell me man as i will be very bz this yr.

des ur mh how???jeff sold his planted liao

**kelstorm** · 6th Jan 2002, 22:28

Des, if u are the mermaid, i dun think Spiff and i want leh..kinda put off by that gross thought.. hahaha...which part of havelock u talking abt? anyway, the last time i met u.. u going to start one.. how's is it coming along? Spiff, how long u been in marine?

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