some Musings on the stages of the hobbyist

[Sunfire]

This is a musing on the stages of the hobbist...so it doesn't refer to anyone in particular. In fact, I think it applies to me more, and is found in us all.

You see, when we started out on this hobby, we were noobs (slang for newbie). So we didn't know about most things, and we did some mistakes that experienced aquarists would scream in horror at. Some examples included putting in fish food 5 times the weight of the fish, keeping goldfish in a bowl and other stuff. Some of us also buy fish on impulse - e.g. Louhan (LH) fish and nemos (clownfish).

Later on, we became more advanced. We managed to advance in our hobby and keep our fish alive. Some of the more advanced things we did - get on a forum, talk with other like minded people, keep more advanced stuff like planted tanks or exotic fishes (from badis island? )

And later on we went even further. Like stuff I haven't even heard of. Like memorizing element and compond names and calculating fertilizer dosages, memorizing scientific names of fauna and flora alike and down to digging out our old engineering textbooks to design circuits for our DIY projects.

But as we advanced, some of us took on stronger viewpoints. You know, viewpoints like 'protecting the environment', 'chow ah bengs are ruining the industry', etc

Snobbishness and prejudice is also inherent in all of us. Some of us just manage to control it. E.g. 'you keep LH fish? You must be one hell of a ah beng / superstituous auntie. don't you know they are ugly mutants?' OR 'you keep arowana? wow, you are one more step to looking like a rich towkay'

I guess the hobbies are different but people are still the same. Pride and discrimination are just part of our nature.

Of course, I'm not that negative, I've met a lot of good guys, good guys who gave me free (and good) advice, offered me free flora and fauna, etc.

[bryan]

At the risk of sounding snobbish, please take a good look at the weird antics that some LH and Aro owners get up to.

[hwchoy]

I attempt to do some of it without sounding arrogance or "elitist" e.g. "oh you keep LH, btw did you know they don't occur in Nature?" or "oh you like fancy fighting fish, btw did you know it has 60 other relatives?"

[bossteck]

Hi,

With no reference to anyone. My feel is:
Someone who can aquascape/keep fishes/breed fishes/grow plants/treat diseases very well, but is closed minded and can only criticize others who are doings things 'wrongly' is at best considered an accompalished person/hobbists.

Someone who is willing to share his/her knowledge and despite being knowledgable is willing to accept other points of view if it is logical, is open-minded about what other people find to be attractive, would be the real hobbists who had made progress.

Cheers!

[hwchoy]

guys, the word is HOBBYIST

[mickthefish]

why hobbyist choy, over in the UK any person working in zoo aquariums, public aquariums are classed as aquarists, but we are called hobbyist's
yet some of us know more about keeping and breeding fish than they do.
so in a way it's class distinction.

mick

[vinz]

I think we might get more 'monster fish' keepers to advance by educating them, then to snub them with snobbish or elitist behaviour. Most are just ignorant and if you actually bother to talk to them and tell them about the other wonderful things about the aquarium hobby, they are quite willing to listen and some do get fascinated.

I think most of us are more successful at converting our 'ah-beng fish keeper' collegues from LH to planted tanks simply because they are friends and we bothered to share and educate them.

Whatever damage that the LH trend did to the aquarium hobby, I think it at least a small percentage of LH keepers advanced to other branches of aquaria.

Anyway, I kept an ikan kelisa (Bahasa Melayu for arowana) in a planted tank... so what does that make me?

[hwchoy]

why hobbyist choy, over in the UK any person working in zoo aquariums, public aquariums are classed as aquarists, but we are called hobbyist's
yet some of us know more about keeping and breeding fish than they do.
so in a way it's class distinction.

mick

hobbyist vs hobbist read the posts carefully.

[valice]

I
Anyway, I kept an ikan kelisa (Bahasa Melayu for arowana) in a planted tank... so what does that make me?

Half-converted towkay?

[hwchoy]

Anyway, I kept an ikan kelisa (Bahasa Melayu for arowana) in a planted tank... so what does that make me?

an ex-ikan kelisa keeper.

well actually, remember the word "arowana" should apply only to the south american species. the local ones are the ikan kelisa.

[vinz]

A towkay-wannabe with taste.

Anyway, we're digressing from the topic.

[bossteck]

Now we're really starting to stray off topic

Thanks for the lesson Hobbyist Choy

[KeIgO86]

Someone who can aquascape/keep fishes/breed fishes/grow plants/treat diseases very well, but is closed minded and can only criticize others who are doings things 'wrongly' is at best considered an accompalished person/hobbists.

Someone who is willing to share his/her knowledge and despite being knowledgable is willing to accept other points of view if it is logical, is open-minded about what other people find to be attractive, would be the real hobbists who had made progress.

Very well said bossteck!

I think every field in the hobby of fishkeeping is different. As long as hobbyists can excel in their own fields. eg. keep their fish (LH aro or tetras) healthy and comfortable, or have a planted tank without a horrible algae invasion, they deserve their credit. Anyone who shows snobbishness or discrimination towards any field is just being mean. We should be sharing information with others in different fields instead of discriminating against them.

Also, I don't understand the discrimination against the LH hobby. Like it or not, LH have been brought to this world and are here to stay. So what if luohans are mutants? They also have a life once born into this world and deserve to be cared for by a doting owner as much as a planted tank and its inhabitants. I don't see a hobbyist who keeps his LH healthy and happy to be any little bit inferior to a hobbyist who can keep a great algae free planted tank.

[hwchoy]

we're not against the LH itself or the keeping of it. we're against their creation in the first place and the indiscriminate release of unwanted LH into the ecosystem.

Just because they have a life does not mean they have a place in Nature. And not just man-made mutants. South American fishes have no place in the Nature of South-east Asia, and vice versa.

Just like introducing guppies to the waterways of the world for mosquito control. we now know it is mostly a rather bad idea.

[KeIgO86]

Yes, irresponsible owner of luohans abandoning their pets in the reservoirs when they get tired of them. The same goes to pet cats and dogs. I guess there will always be the inconsiderate bunch in society.

On a lighter note, I think we should be glad that the LH craze has died down and the people left keeping them are mostly knowledgable about what they are doing.

[hwchoy]

On a lighter note, I think we should be glad that the LH craze has died down and the people left keeping them are mostly knowledgable about what they are doing.

unfortunately the craze actually migrated to Thailand.

[Sunfire]

Yes, irresponsible owner of luohans abandoning their pets in the reservoirs when they get tired of them. The same goes to pet cats and dogs. I guess there will always be the inconsiderate bunch in society

Not a word about the hundreds or thousands of clown fish flushed down the drain because of Finding Nemo....

Thank goodness penguins are not readily available as pets or kids would demand to have them when Happy Feet opens.

Anyway, glad to see that AQ members are showing humility. Let's just make the hobby better and put aside our snob attitudes, if we notice them.

[budak]

As one progresses in the hobby, I think quite a number (though not all) of people start thinking about the fishes and plants NOT just as inhabitants in a tank but as members of some habitat out there, and in doing so, start to learn about the ecosystems required by the animals and plants (as well as the threats they face). Learning about the species that are native (and non-native) is part of this process, and I dare say that once you have seen the diversity and beauty of what nature has to offer (e.g. 60+ species of wild bettas versus man-made forms of Betta splendens, or the thousands of cichlid species of all shapes and sizes versus an unnatural hybrid), you may start to understand why some hobbyists much prefer to former to the latter. Call it snobbishness if you will, but there are good reasons for thinking that certain practices (e.g. preferring natural strains to manmade monsters, and a conservationist stance towards native habitats) are preferable to others.

[XnSdVd]

unfortunately the craze actually migrated to Thailand.

Thailand?! I'm going there soon... must... hunt.. mutant fish... *takes out net*

The hunt for alien mutants aside, i believe the more one learns about anything, the greater one feels for said thing. And in our case, the hobby is really a study of fish and their environments/ecosystems. Which leads to hobbyists like budak and to a certain degree, myself. Who have progressed from merely keeping fish to keeping fish of a certain biotope and learning about their life cycles(breeding, mating, fry rearing).

Unfortunately there are hobyists who, are content to meet the bare minimum(keep fish alive) and stagnate. But contentment is fine, the problem arises when these individuals start getting too proud of their achievements and let that pride get in the way of their further learning. Are they then, not snobbish? Does it not blind them to the rest of the hobby?

Then we start to ask ourselves, why do some stop at the "novice" stage and others seek to learn more? It's definately not a lack of information, the internet is out there for all to learn from. It's not the fish they choose to keep, Scleropages formosus is just as much a fish as Betta pugnax and has it's own ecosystem. So why then?

And do all hobbyists go through all stages eventually? Or do we stagnate at points?


Give this a read if y'all have a chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato%27s_cave

[hwchoy]

Thailand?! I'm going there soon... must... hunt.. mutant fish... *takes out net*

no need bring net, just bring lots of $$, they are easy to catch, the shop owner will even catch them for you once you hand over the bahts.