Spawning Angels?

[Lam_wn]

Hello,

lately seen my pair of platinium angels acting wierdly in the planted set up. Hope to get some advice from all who have bred angels before whether this is spawning behaviour.

Their 'wierd' behaviour:
aggressiveness.
previously, they always fought among themselves, now, they kind-of team up against the resident lone discus (slightly larger than they are) and are very defensive of their territory (the E. osiris plant) aggresive towards any fish which intrudes - ie tetras, discus, etc.
'cleaning the spawning site' behaviour.
I have been repeatedly seeing the "pair" cleaning leaves of the E.osiris plant I have, pecking at it together, and pecking at intersecting leaves of the E.bleheri also. They seem to have preferred a particularly larger leaf of the osiris lately. They have been doing this for a few days now (from what I can see)

However, I have my doubts that they are about to spawn.
Firstly, they are only about 5+cm from snout to caudal peduncle, if I didnt estimate wrongly. None of them exhibit a DISTINCT hump of the forehead yet. And generally they seem small in stature.
I also find it hard to believe that I have only 2 angels and just nice turn out to be 1 male 1 female...

So, seeking advice from all who have knowledge in this area, if you have spawned angels before, even better... all inputs valued.
thanks!
Lam

[Justikanz]

Yes, the angels are showing signs of pre-spawning...

Regarding their small sizes, well, cichlids are sexually mature earlier than we thought. The 'distinct hump' may not be present for all male cichlids, anyway...

Regarding the chances of you hitting the jackpot with their gender... Well, no guarantees here... 2 female cichlids are know to run 'trial' spawnings and even actual egg-laying just to expel their eggs...

[bossteck]

From my limited experience, yes, they do exhibit signs of being ready to spawn.
1. Becoming very territorial
2. Cleaning up the site for them to deposite their eggs.

You will probably see eggs in about 2-3 days, but whether or not they will hatch is totally another matter.

[Lam_wn]

Hi guys,
thanks for the response.

Ok, both of you are right. Before I got the chance to read your replies, the angels had begun spawning already.





so forget everything I had just said. I need more help now!

There are potential predators in the tank.
In the day: Discus (single) cardinals and rummy noses and some pencil fish (15-20?) indian dwarf puffer (the freshwater snail buster type) (single), some shrimps (not sure if they would pose a threat - yamatos -many)
nocturnal threats: A small baby pleco, whiptails (1big 2small), shrimps
It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to remove these fish from the tank, so I understand that this is the first and foremost problem.
I understand parental care is essential for survival. Am i right? If that is the case, I assume cutting the E.osiris leaf off for artificial hatching in a separate tank is NOT an option?

Also, the fish have chosen to spawn very close to the front glass, and the aquarium is not exactly in a 'quiet' location. Although the fish seem very comfortable with human activity, would it still be advisable to cover the tank with newspaper, as per a friend's suggestion? (although I thought the act of covering the tank itself may be frightening for the fish)
If the eggs really do make it to larval stages, at what point in time would it be safe to remove them from their parents, into another tank? And any advice on how to do this is also welcomed.

First time angel spawner desparately looking for help now...
thanks in advance.

Lam

[bossteck]

I once asked the same questions you did.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=23782

[Lam_wn]

thanks bossteck.

Ok. So I more or less understand now.

But still need to ask so can be sure about this part:

the eggs have hatched and fry are sitting on the leaf under protection of parents now. So now I am not sure when to 'make the move' to remove the fry. since the parents have defended their brood so well until this stage, I guess i can trust them to continue protection until free-swimming stage.

But I am not sure if free-swimmers are easier to pick off by the tetras (which I have already witnessed munching up some eggs.) And am I supposed to expect all the free-swimming angel fry to group together and be easily netted up in one scoop of a fine net? Sounds too easy to be true....

any advice on what is the next step I would take?
thanks

[Cherries Lover]

bro,

Just ensure that if you plan to breed them successfully then no other fishes & other stuffs in the same tank because Angels can be very fierce when breeding time...