Puzzled between ADA and Dennerle soil

[Aquaculture]

I'm planning to set up a planted tank but am puzzled on which to use; ADA or Dennerle substrate. May someone shine some light?

Does either substrate need basefert?

Heard tat ADA has a lifespan on it... any idea what's the useful duration and what would happen then?

Thanks.

[|squee|]

You can use Aquasoil only, or Aquasoil with Powersand. The latter is reported to have better results, but it may just be a placebo effect. You don't need base fert for ADA.

Aquasoil breaks down into a muddy mess over time (lasts about 1 year under normal general usage). The muddy mess tends to start getting BGA. However, most users of Aquasoil either do a tank overhaul often enough to not see the Aquasoil becoming mud, or do not disturb the substrate at all such that the Aquasoil stays solid for as long as possible.

I can't help you on Dennerle because I've never used it.

[benny]

Dennerle gravel is just colored inert rounded gravel sized between 1 to 3 mm. Nothing more.

Cheers,

[StanChung]

Dennerle has a base fert that's called Deponit Mix. This has to be covered with a layer of inert sand as it will mess up the whole tank when you add water. Use a one-two inch layer of Deponit and cover it with 2-4 inch of sand.

ADA's aquasoil is pelleted soil[baked]-It has organic content in it that provide nutrients as it decomposes. Base fert has similar properties but is a visibly more coarse mix of sand, peat and other organic matter.
You can use this as per Terence instruction. Care has to be taken as Aquasoil is soil and will foul up the water if messed with too much.
With Aquasoil you can top up if you notice it diminishing.

Sand + base fert setups are a bit more tricky as we need to avoid both layers from mixing. This combo should be left alone till you move house or decide to do major overhaul.

Both can be refreshed with fert pills/sticks/balls etc.

[Aquaculture]

Went down to Y618 last night to ask. It seems Dennerle is natural soil and would last forever whereas ADA is man-made. Its true that ADA does breakdown and has a lifespan of about 2yrs before it becomes a muddy patch. The tank cleaner we normally use during WC, is it able to suck out the mud? Or is it those really sticky/thick ones?

ADA being man-made has its own fertilization properties and would provide a ph or about 5.5. Dennerle, being natural is inert therefore basefert is a must.

To complicate the equation, a brand - Red Sea, was also recommended. Seems like Red Sea substrate provides a high buffer as it allows the tank to be more stabilize.

But when we discuss the plants I intent to grow. There was road block when one of the plants I intent to grow is Glasso. Discounting the muddy mess, which in time to come would show itself, it seems ideal soil to grow Glasso (which is what I intent to have as a foreground). Anybody has any experience with that particular plant?

[Shadow]

does it mean Dennerle is more or less similar to sand? do not have fert property by it self.

I grow my glosso on ADA aquasoils, they grow very fast.

[valice]

Dennerle gravel is just colored inert rounded gravel sized between 1 to 3 mm. Nothing more.

Cheers,

Went down to Y618 last night to ask. It seems Dennerle is natural soil and would last forever whereas ADA is man-made. Its true that ADA does breakdown and has a lifespan of about 2yrs before it becomes a muddy patch. The tank cleaner we normally use during WC, is it able to suck out the mud? Or is it those really sticky/thick ones?

ADA being man-made has its own fertilization properties and would provide a ph or about 5.5. Dennerle, being natural is inert therefore basefert is a must.

Hmmm. If you refer to Benny's reply again, Dennerle is just gravel meaning it is just like lapis sand. Inert silica. So not a soil.

ADA is a baked soil literally soil with a mixture of peat. So if you consider that man-made, then okay. As for why the pH is low for the case of ADA, is due to the presence of peat in each granuale of the ADA soil.

For the mushiness, it will happen only if you do frequent rescaping. Else they stay in their granular shape for up to 2years or more as you mentioned. Mine is used for 1 year, and the bottom layer and top layers are still in perfect shape.

When I do minor rescaping or major scaping, the loose "mud" will come up to the surface and I just do a simple siphoning to remove them and what I get again is clean and nice shaped ADA soil at the top.

As for the Glosso you want to do, it is an easy plant as long as you have good lights and CO2. Lights is very important to glosso if you want to get them to crawl. People who have used ADA AS for planting glosso will tell you that it will become a weed once it is established. They explode like no one's business.

[andrewtyr]

yes, second on valice. I have been using my ADA for 4 years, and becasue it was second hand, total in use for 5.5years, still in good shape. I am very satisfied with it, because the plants florish in it.
It has low pH, works well with the ericaulon species but downois will rot in it. It really depends what you want to scape. But I do prefer the dark tone color of ADA over any other color

[celticfish]

ADA aquasoil
good on its own
better with powersand
most say it lasts about 2 years but i reckon careful rescapes let it last longer.
also, you can "refresh" the substrate by adding new aquasoil to the top layer.

note: powersand has white colour particles in it. so when you uproot plants you will have unsightly white particles over the dark aquasoil. one way to mitigate this is to use aquasoil exclusively - point fert with ferka sticks or clayballs and water, and fertilize the water column with EI method.


Dennerle gravel
lasts forever...
as with aquasoil, if you use deponit base fert, it has white particles.
same mitigation plan as Aquasoil - point fert and EI method.
this will allow you to re-use when you move tanks or re-sell at a good price.

[Aquaculture]

Shadow - Think Dennerle as sand. It has to be complemented by basefert.

Well, 'ate a little snake' and went down to NA. Chan was sayng that some clients has used ADA for up to 5yrs even. Though the substrate may breakdown over time but could be sucked up via the gravel washer. As for the BGA or any algae management, care has to be taken as not to stir the soil too much. The 'mud' being fine particles would cause the tank to be cloudy which overtime would attract our 'beloved' enemy - algae.

After the discussion with Chan, it seems like the marriage between Dennerle and Deponit Mix, or any other basefert is a must. Therefore Dennerle is merely a brandname.

ADA on the other hand, do have its many advantages but the thought of having to replace the substrate every few years or so. Guess its an arguement whether the glass is half full or half empty.... I like celticfish's idea of topping up, hiding the skeletons in the closet...heehee

I've yet have any experience with glosso and am rather overzealous about it current. My take of it being weeds now would rather biased as I would say it would be a happy problem. Well, maybe in a couple of months, you would see a thread - WTS - Glosso, months later, WTG - Glosso and the finale - How to get rid of Glosso...hahaha I've read up on this url http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...rophulariaceae
It seems that ' Phosphate limited situations will result in slow growth and a dark green color.' And won't a dark green look cool... Imho, we're playing 'god' in a tank environment. We can do anything we like with it.

[valice]

It seems that ' Phosphate limited situations will result in slow growth and a dark green color.' And won't a dark green look cool... Imho, we're playing 'god' in a tank environment. We can do anything we like with it.

And hopefully you wouldn't have algae problem due to something in the equation goes out.

[Aquaculture]

That's true Vincent. I'm an advocate of the EI method, we are able to balance the equation via the weekly wc.