Possibility of a Dwarf Cichlids Exchange Program?

[wks]

Hi guys, maybe we can set up some kind of fish exchange programme among ourselves to take care the excess juvenile fishes. It also help us hobbyists to try out other species of apisto without spending too much.

[Cacatuoides]

oh yes, thats a good idea.....especially to attract more new apisto lovers too!!

ps. I'll be having 2 pairs of juvenile Ap. Cacatuoides "Triple Red" for sale by end of this month...I'll try to get some pictures up when I'm free....

open for reservation too

[benny]

Interesting sub topic from this thread... so I split it out for further exploration.

Cheers,

[Cacatuoides]

I think it is a great idea since we have limited number of apistos in Singapore right now.....It will be a good idea for us to exchange species to keep the fishes for knowledge and experience of the species of apisto.....maybe we can start listing down the species of apisto we currently keep and whether there are fries so that we can expect some juvenile apistos later in time....

If ok, let me start the ball rolling:

Ap. Cacatuoides "Triple Red" / 5 batches of fries

[benny]

I'm more interested in exploring the feasibility of such a program and how it can be structured effectively for sustainability.

Cheers,

[leeruisheng]

How about collating excess fries/juveniles and selling to LFS under AQ. Money will maybe go to charity or some other purposes e.g. printing of AQ polo tee. At the same time, LFS dont have to source from aboard and there could be quite a constant supply of apistos on the local scene.

Or maybe setup a fish room in rented space? Like what one of the forumer at arofanatics.com did by setting up a space to breed and sell his crystal red shrimps.

Moderator please go ahead and delete this post if it's absurd.

Hi guys, maybe we can set up some kind of fish exchange programme among ourselves to take care the excess juvenile fishes. It also help us hobbyists to try out other species of apisto without spending too much.

Yeah sounds interesting. Just wondering if hobbyist will abuse this privilege. For instance, getting it cheap and selling somewhere else for higher returns.

[Wackytpt]

A penny for thought.

This might be a bit sensitive and disturbing. But it is my feeling.

Well as much as we can try to breed the apistos. We must also strive to maintain the quality of the apisto. Are we just going breed and breed then let go the fries. Then very soon the market will just be flooding with sub quality apistos.

This won't do any justice to the actually beauty of the fishes.

Are you ready to cull the sub quality one. (It might be disturbing to some, my apology in advance)

Only with proper and selective quality breeding, then we would have quality apistos. We got to bear in mind, a newbie is only interested in the 1st sight of the apisto. If it looks horrible, the image will be stick to that.

[leeruisheng]

Well as much as we can try to breed the apistos. We must also strive to maintain the quality of the apisto. Are we just going breed and breed then let go the fries. Then very soon the market will just be flooding with sub quality apistos.

Not sure about this, but isn't it the same with some apisto farms. Some LFS may get supplies from these farms because they are relatively cheaper.

Are you ready to cull the sub quality one. (It might be disturbing to some, my apology in advance)
Only with proper and selective quality breeding, then we would have quality apistos.

How about collaborating with fish farm like Qian Hu, allowing the professionals to up keep the quality of apisto.
Not sure if this is sensitive issue. But moderator, delete if necessary.

[Cacatuoides]

I agree with nicholas...

Many people breed their apistos many times and the quality of the fries start to drop...At all times, we should not compromise on the quality of the apistos whether for keeping or breeding....

I think there are much more thoughts to the exchange program...doesn't seem to be simple after all

[Milk]

Not sure about this, but isn't it the same with some apisto farms. Some LFS may get supplies from these farms because they are relatively cheaper.

That's why we keeps getting the sub-quality Apistogramma becose IT"S CHEAP!!!! and not the better looking one...This is the typical singaporean mentality.Fish farm only going for the interest of money making and they usually forgot to plan for the future!!! What if the markets become stagnant with that particular species of fishes??Like for example...I'm into Apistogramma keeping when i caught a first sight of an Apistogramma Cacatuoides..I did my reading and off i go to buy my Apistogramma...But i was never sucessful in getting the similer kind of A.cacatuoides that hooked me into this hobby..Becose the markets is Stagnant with super lousy quality A.cacatuoides!!!!

How about collaborating with fish farm like Qian Hu, allowing the professionals to up keep the quality of apisto.
Not sure if this is sensitive issue. But moderator, delete if necessary.

Hummm....if big player like Qian Hu comes in,do you think your Apistogramma that you getting from them will comes cheap?? And if it dosen't come cheap,will you buy????Based on typical singaporean mentality,Apistogramma keeping will die off lor!!!!! Anyone wonders how much a pair of Apisto will cost a few year back???when it was just introduce??If I'm not wrong,S$400+ for a pair of A.elizabathae..Back than,hobbyist will still buy them becose they admire and appreciate them....

Basically,we are talking about how to pass the knowledge and the passion of Apistogramma keeping alive...Some of us may just buy the Apistogramma that caught their eyes..Some don't even read up before their purchase...some don't even plan when they spawn their Apistogramma...all do it just for the end results...profits..So eventually,Apistogramma keeping become a profit generating hobby without proper consideration...

Regards
Milk

[Milk]

I agree with nicholas...

Many people breed their apistos many times and the quality of the fries start to drop...At all times, we should not compromise on the quality of the apistos whether for keeping or breeding....

I think there are much more thoughts to the exchange program...doesn't seem to be simple after all

Hey Eman;

Since you agree with Nicholas...to what degree are you for culling of your fries??? At that moment when all your fries grow up to sexable size,will you cull the worst grade of the fries??Or just sell them off at super cheap price???Think about this..if there's worst grades of fries/Apistogramma in the markets,how will it interest new Apistogramma keeper??Since the worst grade Apisto only looks like a colour faded louhan!!! or to some......Longkang Fish!!!

Regards
Milk

[Milk]

Hi guys, maybe we can set up some kind of fish exchange programme among ourselves to take care the excess juvenile fishes. It also help us hobbyists to try out other species of apisto without spending too much.

Hi wks;

If this exchange programme kick off...to what extend will you let other people/forum member to have the best of the fries??As normal human..we will definately keep the best of the broods and let others have the balnce...This is pretty much true when we are into selective breeding...How about the rest of the brood??How about the lousy 1 within the brood??Will anyone of you cull off the fries??If there's no culling,the worst among the brood goes into the market again..If all hobbyist are able to keep a pure/good line of the apistogramma that you are keeping/breeding,we will definately trigger/interest more people to theses wonderful species of cichlid...

Regards
Milk

[vinz]

Hmmm... looking at the last few posts by Milk, things might start to get heated up. I request that everybody keep their heads cool and focus on the issues brought up with civility rather than respond rashly at the heat of the moment. It is a rather interesting thread and it'll be a waste for it to de-generate into a flame war.

I also remind all that the tone and intentions of text often get mis-interpreted text without the benefit of body language and expressions. So please be careful how you write and how you respond.

Thanks to all for keeping AQ a place for exchange of ideas and not barbs.

[doppelbanddwarf]

Just my 2 cents worth of opinions. Maybe you can sell the high quality ones to LFS and give the culls to beginners in apistogramma keeping.
This way the beginners can learn how to keep apistogramma before they go into more expensive ones.

If a beginner were to spend lets say a hundred dollars on a pair of them, then he fails to keep them alive, then maybe he may not want to continue keeping this fish.

A way to reduce poor quality fish using this method would be by giving only male fishes to beginners to try out.

[leeruisheng]

This is what the crystal red shrimp community is practising. There are grades ranging from grade C to grade SSS. Price range from $2 to few hundreds for a piece. Starters will usually go for the lower grades first.

[taygu]

Generally, this is a good idea but need carefully planning and sustainbility will be a big challenges. Furthermore quality can be subjective.

This is what the crystal red shrimp community is practising. There are grades ranging from grade C to grade SSS. Price range from $2 to few hundreds for a piece. Starters will usually go for the lower grades first.

The situation with CRS is a bit different as there is only one species but different grade. And CRS is much more difficult to keep compare to Apisto.

Just my 2 cents though.

[Milk]

Hi there;

Sorry for posting such harsh comments and my personnal view just now...I sincerely apologise for all my harsh words and post..

Just my 2 cents worth of opinions. Maybe you can sell the high quality ones to LFS and give the culls to beginners in apistogramma keeping.
This way the beginners can learn how to keep apistogramma before they go into more expensive ones.

If a beginner were to spend lets say a hundred dollars on a pair of them, then he fails to keep them alive, then maybe he may not want to continue keeping this fish.

A way to reduce poor quality fish using this method would be by giving only male fishes to beginners to try out.

This will be a better ideal...I 100% in for this ideal....So if anyone interested in Apistogramma...Please look out for my post...I will definately cull all lousy quality fries and i will give out a few pairs of sightly acceptable quality apisto to all those who will like to venture into apisto...But please note that it will be in limited numbers..

Regards
Milk

[Milk]

For a head start and hoping that the Apistogramma scene in singapore will get heated up...I will offer to give away F.O.C 1 Apistogarmma Species to any newbie/member who interested to venture into Apisto keeping.. Terms & condition apply.

Refer here-->http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...347#post233347


Regards
Milk

[sheng]

For a head start for beginner, i think he/she should start with the more common types like A.cacatuoides, A.agassizii or A.trifasciata.

It will be even better if they are farm-breeded so they can be taken care more easily & better adaptation to the new environment.

[doppelbanddwarf]

Wow good work Milk. I would have loved to get the super red female but i don't think it'll be fair. I'll try to get one female from Cacatuoides (the guy not the fish!) instead.