Starting up a planted tank.. Newbie needs help.

[LoneRider]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to AQ and planted tanks but don't consider myself a newbie to aquaria keeping. My experience has been mostly with arrowana's and discus. I understand the basics of tank cycling and the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite cycle. Other than discus breeding I've also tried my hand at a planted tank with some success. Species kept were vallis, java ferns and amazon swords. With a career swith there's isn't much time for discus breeding and the massive water changes. Thinking of going planted again.

Presently I own a show tank that measures approx 3x1.5x1.5 which I intend to plant up. I also have the following hardware.

Stock tank lighting is 4xFL tubes
An Eheim external (old model, think its 2213) with rain bar outlet.
An aluminium CO2 cylinder
An old Dennerle regulator (no solenoid)
An new unused chiller (RESUN CL300, 1/4Hp)
A cooling fan
A digital timer
Quite a few heaters

Most of these stuff are at least 5yrs old but hardly used except for the filter. I'm thinking of buying new medias for that. What else would I need for my setup. What tubes should I be looking at? Or should I go for PC units instead?

I used a diffusor and bubble counter in the past any better methods came up last few years? What is the best substrate in your opinion? I'm gunning for something dark brown to black. Any idea where I can get that?

What media combination do you guys suggest? I'm thinking foam pads and biohome. Is the chiller necessary? I'm thinking of letting it go for lack of space and saving electricity bill. Will it cost much to run?

And I know this has been a longwinded post but any idea where I can get the best range of plants at a reasonable price? LFS and farms are ok. I stay at Toh Guan and has no transport. Going NIE soon so hope there plant farms nearby..

The plants I intend to keep? I'm hoping to keep some crypts, a lotus and some bits of driftwood with moss attached. Hoping for hairgrass but don't have any idea if it's easy or difficult.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks all..
LoneRider

[jiahe88]

hi LoneRider, you riding bike too? me also a beginner at the moment, but i may give u some ideal, firstly you are trying to get some more high light for the plants cost you may change your ideal after you visiting AQ and see some aquascape the reason because your lighting is insufficent. And for co2 if you don't mind waste your co2 just get manual regulator. but is best to get a solenoid with timer.and a reactor or extenal reactor instead of diffusor. sometime when you ferterliz and on your lights alge will vist the tank glass so you need to save your co2 to blast it when the alge vist to get away. my also 3ft tank! this are my experience but chiller better to sell than use. just need a 14cm fan will do. my tempreture is about 26 to 27 24/7 on it. from your ideals is easy but you need to plan what should you get and the scape you going too. i hope my english will let you understand what i trying to say. sorry who can correct me thanks.i'm trying! keke

[LoneRider]

Thanks for the advice..

So what kind of lighting should I go for? Thinking of power compacts as they give out more light as compared to FL. Are the sufficient? How many tubes do I need and any idea how much the fixture and tubes will cost? And last one.. which brand of solenoid should I go for and what is the RRP for it?

Regards
LoneRider

[jiahe88]

you may go for T5 mod type, this t5 3tube cost 100+ abit and you able to get from NA thomson. and not so high temp compare to PL light. solenoid you may try get from 2nd hand. at AQ aquarium related market you can get it with all kinds of things with good price. cost you don't know when you will give up 1 day. just like me now is hobbies but wife will keep on scold. sad! haha. for solenoid RRP is about $120 +- but i get my for 2nd hand. this is my ideal but i don know you willing to pay for 1st hand brand new or getting all aquarium with 2nd hand. External reactor you may try go NA also selling at there. good luck to you. time to sleep. zzZZ

[eddyq]

Hi LoneRider, Welcome to AQ.

1. You will need 4x 36w PL lights for your 3ft tank.
2. ADA Amazonia soil the better choice, pricy but good for plants.
3. For CO2 get a 5 litre tank with solenoid less hassle.
4. Get a CO2 reactor.

I hope this help if not can PM me and I stay nearby.

[AquaObsession]

Hi,

Welcome to AQ

I do not suggest you go for ADA aquasoil since if you are new to this hobby, you are likely to have itchy hands, meaning you will want to do some rescape from time to time. ADA aquasoil breaks down if you handle it too much, and may cause greenish water in some tanks.

Hence a cheaper alternative would be to go for lapis sand with or without a base fert (JBL base fert). And you can supplement it with some root ferts if you want to have some lotus or some crypts.

If you already have your lights set, you may continue to do so, but if you only have just the tubes, then you can consider a T5 sets or PL sets. It will not matter too much to you since your tank is 1.5 feet deep (hence no worry about penetration), and temperature will not be a factor if you are using chiller.

For Co2 distribution method, go for a reactor (internal/external) reactor.


You can set your chiller to give you a range of 24-26 degrees, if you see it is kicking too much and taking too much time to cool the tank down, increase flow rate via the chiller, and set it as 25-27 or 26-28 range. Plants will do well.

For fertilization methods, I am not sure if you will be using the E.I method, which will then require weekly water change (50%) or W.C after 10 days. IT is the cheapest method, and also you will avoid algae.

You will not be needing the heater at all!

Some shops you might wish to check are C328 and NA for equipment and accessories, and Colorful and Teo Farm for plants. This is my experience.


I suggest you do not sell your chiller for now, because you will definitely want to buy one later to test how plants do in water temperature of 24-26 degrees. Use it first, then decide if you want to go for fan or chiller, of course with chiller you will be spending more on electricity.

[LoneRider]

Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it. I'll probably continue using the present light fixture I have, (4xFL) but will purchase new tubes for them. What full sprectrum tube do you recommend? What's the price range?

I've used lapis sand in the past but don't really fancy the pale colour. I'm looking for a darker substrate. ADA is way out of budget for me and I'd probably mess it up. Is there any black or darker coloured substrate available? I've used a black quartz substrate in the past (could be glass) but haven't seen it in a while. Its probably devoid of any nutrient but possible to lay it over a base fertilliser. Anyone knows where to source it? Another more economical option woul be a JBJ substrate I've seen. Is that any good.

Even in previous tanks I've only tested for PH, nitrite and general hardness. I know nothing of fertillization and what not. I know these are a lot of questions but I'd like to start off right. I found a link for the EI method (seems to condone massive water changes), anyone has a link to the IT method? Which is simpler to dose and check?

For CO2 dosing I previously use bpm rate, adjusting the rate according to condition of the plants (trial and error I guess). Any better method to gauge optimum CO2 levels?

Thanks guys, any help, be it a one line response is appreciated.

LoneRider

[jiahe88]

You may try aquaclay. .and is more to brown colour. it look alike ADA soil. I'm using JBJ substrate. not bad can try for it. think 1 container should be enough for a 3ft tank. anything that i wrong please correct me.

[|squee|]

For the tubes, I don't know about those so-called plant light tubes, but imho as long as it's daylight white it's alright.

ADA Aquasoil is cheaper now then ever before, do take a look at it. But yes, if you think you will mess it up, perhaps go for sand substrates like Seachem Onyx, or Dennerle black sand. Nature Aquarium opposite Thomson Medical Centre is a easy place for you to find all equipment you want. I don't know about the JBJ substrate.

What's the IT method? For me the EI is simple and a no brainer once you get the hang of it and understand it. Search the forums for people asking about EI... I once started a thread asking about EI too.

Easiest way to ensure you pump in the highest amount of CO2 will be to set the bubble rate at say.. 1bps, then move it up extremely slowly to 2bps, 3bps and so on until you see the fish are starting to show discomfort at any time of the day. Once you see it lower the bps down to the last safe point and you're set. Water circulation is another matter though... you can pump in good CO2 but if the distribution isn't good, you're still going to get BBA and other algae.

[LoneRider]

Thanks for all the replies..

On the matter of CO2 reactors, I've been looking at various models I saw on the net. One is a passive flow (filter driven) model, green cylinder with bioball or ladder like structure (non branded and pretty common at LFS. The other one has a pump fixed onto the unit, buit by Red Sea.. Which do you think is better?

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Red-Sea-CO2-R...QQcmdZViewItem



Any opinions?

[|squee|]

The one with the pump is better, reason being filter flowrates decrease with time and it's good to have a seperate pump doing the CO2.

[LoneRider]

Good to know. I'd rather have a separate pump for the reactor too as the filter I'm running is not that powerful. Is this available in local LFS? If it isn't I'm thinking of getting this through Ebay..

[|squee|]

I doubt you can get it here.

You can have a DIY reactor... look at the stickies under the Equipment sub-forum and buy a seperate pump for it.

Of course, simply buying it will be good.

[LoneRider]

Went C328 today.. First stop Clementi florist and Aquarium. This has always been my favourit shop and probablyalways will be. Though the auntie hasn't seen me in over 2years she still remembered me. Looked at lighting and saw T5s for sale (4x39W), was quoted $90 for that. Do you think thats overkill for a 3 footer. I've set my heart on a tank with crpts, moss (spiky or flame) and maybe a carpeting plant (undecided species, any recommendations?). Quoted $120 for JBJ solenoid which I think is fair enough. Might use my old Dennerle manual regulator for the moment till finances allow an upgrade. Since payday is next week I didn't make any purchase but noted down the costs.

I don't think I'll be getting ADA sand as I've read lots about the cloudiness problems, PH shifts and the costs involved. Saw that lots of tanks in Polyart using a dark substrate (looks like beads). Is this any better or cheaper? Florist sells packs of loose substrate that looks just like this at $10 per 2L. For a tank of my size (3ftx1.5ft) how much substrate will I need? Anyone can recommend me anything else other than ADA? please quote a price tag..

Thanks all..

LoneRider

[PeterGwee]

Go with ADA aquasoil if you wish for a darker substrate since they are much better than those taiwanese knockoffs. CO2 is best turned off at night if you do not want issues with CO2 overdose. Growing plants takes some reading up and the folks here should be able to help you.

Since you don't have time to do water changes anymore....unless you are going to do up pipings for easy water changes, you are better off doing the non-CO2 method. There is an article in the forum on that method by Tom Barr or you can pick up Diana Walstad's book.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

[LoneRider]

I have time for waterchanges.. Just not as much as before. Had 12 tanks of discus previously all in one room and change water everyday. Now probably can manage once or twice a week. Good think is that the planted tank will be near to common toilet for drainage ang water top ups.. I'm thinking of lights to be timed around 10hrs, on at 12noon and off at 10pm. Will 2bags of ADA be enough for my tank? Any recommendations for a carpeting plant? 4x39W is ok or overkill?

[|squee|]

Once a week is good enough. 50% each time.

You might need 3 bags of Aquasoil for a good measure.

Lighting period is fine, I don't know about the wattage though; never touched 3 ft tanks.

Carpeting plants can be:
Ranalisma rostrata (difficult to find now, can try asking on this forum)
Echinodorus tennellus
Elatine triandra (aka APP)
Glossostigma elatinoides
Hairgrass

[LoneRider]

Water change is a habit. once you've gotten used to it it gets easier. Still changing water for a dozen tanks after a 12hr workday is no joke. Which is why I'm downgading to probably 1 or 2 tanks.

Latest update for my setup.. Bought a JBJ solenoid regulator and an internal reactor (green cylinder with bioball type) at C328. Price was $138 and $12 respectively before a $2 discount. After paying I noticed that my reactor has no diffusor stone. Seems theres 2 types, one with diffusor and one without. Will this matter much?

I'm also scaling down my setup as mid year bonus is still 2months away. Setup will now be as follows..

Tank : 2 x 1.5 x 1.5 (old discus breeding tank)
Light : 2x 55watt PC fixture (need change tube as 1 x Actinic and 1 x10K)
Filter : Eheim 2213 (will also run my internal reactor)
CO2 : 2Litre cylinder with new solenoid
Substrate : ADA Amazonia (think will buy 9-13.5L, 9L $38 at Polyart)
Cooling : Cooling fan strip with 4mini fan (unknown pulldown rate)

After calculation of volume and lighting (max 28gallons, probably 25gallons). Figure is about 3.9-4watts per gallon. This will be one bright tank! In my situation, any idea what's standing between a lush tank of plants and a pea soup with hair algae? Will planting floating plants help?

As my racks are all full metal affairs I'm planning to set up on an Ikea side table (model name is Lack). Is this advisable?

Thanks guys..

Its great to be part of AQ..
LoneRider

[LoneRider]

Anyone knows if 110 watts of PC light is too much for a 2 x 1.5 x 1.5?

[|squee|]

Seems theres 2 types, one with diffusor and one without. Will this matter much?

Nope, as long as you don't get BBA.

55W can be done if you manage your CO2 well and plant the tank heavily from the start.

Ikea tables aren't meant to hold heavy stuff. I'd invest in a proper fish tank cabinet or stand.