ADA Amazonia Slightly Hazy

[pringles]

Hi All,

First of all I hope that I have posted this thread in the right place.

I do believe that ADA substrate is the best money can buy in the current market. I have my 3 foot (about 170L) aquascape setup as follows;

- ADA amazonia
- Eheim 2236
- 8X39W T5s
- CO2 injection (just less than 1 bps)

pH is about 6. Ammonia and nitrite 0; NItrate about 10.

However, the water is slightly hazy. I am not getting the crystal clear water I thought I was going to get. Is my filter not effective enough? (The 2236s are rated for 300L tanks - 600L/hr) I do have a couple of corrys in my tank and they do like to slightly dig into the substrate, but it should not cause be the cause of this right?

I have redsea substrate in my other nano tank (about 27L), runnning an Eheim 2213, and the water there is clearer than anything I have seen before.

The haziness is not really bugging me - all the plants are thriving and photosynthesising like there's no tomorrow, and the fishes seem to be doing quite well (apart from the CO2 incident I had yesterday - I should start another topic for this). But I just wonder if other people have had this problem?

Any opinions would be great.

[tcampbell]

It is one of the problems with the first generation of ADA Aquasoil, many people have complained of. Clogs the filter too IME.

It is a pain when adding and changing water as it gets stirred up and turns everything hazy. It is a pain when cleaning the tank as stiring it up puts the same cloudy appearance to the water and it is a pain when rearranging the tank plants as you stir it all up again. Mine lasted a year in my 10 gallon tank, I hated using it (though I admit the plants loved it very much!) as it seemed to make my filter dirty quicker, and everytime I had to do something in the tank I was nervous that I would stir it up and make it cloudy again.
Although it seems many people don't have this problem and say "just be careful when changing water and moving things around. But I found, simply touching the soil was enough to make it cloudy.

I have heard that this has been improved on generation II of the Aquasoil, but for a higher price. ADA on a 3 foot tank, I think you already paid a high price!!

The corys will stir it up but I did not find they were enough to make it cloudy, what they stirred up usually settled in a few seconds.

On my new tank I have tried another brand. Soil Pro Professional Grade Substrate from Taiwan. It has not been released on the market yet but the plans are for it in the next couple of months. I am being a "test monkey" for the product. So far so good, but time will tell.
Looks like this

Looks like this after stiring the soil around with my hand and dumping the water in (yes dumping it in from buckets - not slow fill here just get it filled fast!!

The green color is from the 10mm glass. Funny I don't notice when looking at the tank, but through pictures it really shows up!

PS- are you sure the haze is not an algae bloom on the glass? I noticed this on a few people tanks who complained about hazy water, not cloudy brownish water. Not suggesting anything, but maybe try cleaning the front glass if you haven't recently, and see if that helps.

[tcampbell]

a new version of Aquasoil that will have less coloring of the water.

http://adana.co.jp/index_e.php

From the website:

Release of "Aqua Soil Amazonia II"
Aqua Soil Amazonia has been used by many planted aquarium hobbyists around the world, as base substrate material for growing aquatic plants. Aqua Soil Amazonia is produced from black soil with rich organic substances, helping the plant growth, and most aquatic plant species can grow in healthy condition with Amazonia. But, in the alkaline base water*, there are rare case reports that organic substance such as humic acid may seep into the water, and cause water coloring or cloudiness.
So this time Aqua Design Amano introduced "Aqua Soil-Amazonia II", a new Amazonia type substrate, produced with different black soil mixture ratio, preventing water coloring or cloudiness. As the base color or plant growing pattern is different from existing lines, we continuously market Aqua Soil Amazonia. Please select according to your needs and preference. But if your base water* is alkaline, we recommend to use Amazonia II.

*Base Water refers to all types of water used for the aquarium, including tap water, groundwater, or aquarium tank water.

Distinctive FEATURE of "Aqua Soil-Amazonia II"
1. Amazonia II has less incident of water coloring or cloudiness.
2. It contains black soil, appropriate for water plants growth, and its natural color matches well with planted aquarium.
3. It lowers pH and KH, and makes ideal water condition for most plants and tropical fish.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=28280

I'm actually still scouting around for the cheapest prices for ADA amazionia ... and has actually contacted a Nozomi Hayakawa San representating ADA to ask the difference between the two.

Here's the information to share with you guys and gals,

'Difference of Amazonia and Amazonia II
Amazonia contains natural black soil, and idealistic for plant growth, but humic acid may seep into the water, and cause cloudiness when the water is alkaline.
Amazonia II has less content of black soil, but it does not cause water cloudiness, and good for growing aquatic plants. '

Hope this information clears the air between the 2 products. By the way, any idea which LFS sells the cheapest ADA substrate?

Regards...

[brianclaw]

How long has this tank been set up? It might just be cycling. I know Aquasoil can cause ammonia spikes in the beginning of a set up.

[valice]

Another thing about ADA soil is to check the packaging.
Sometimes, you get "expired" ADA soil where the soil is dried out, thus causing the soil to crumble slightly and thus causing minute particles to float around.

Just a point to ADA soil buyers, always check to make sure you see moisture in the bag. If there is no moisture, it is most likely dried out.

Pringles, what is the hardness of Aussie waters? If it is more towards liquid rock, it might possibly be the cause of your cloudy water. Also, it could be slight bacteria bloom.

[pringles]

Hi guys,

Straight from tap -- GH 40, KH 20
In tank -- GH40, KH 10
pH is around 6.

So I don't think my water, and source is anywhere alkaline.

Yes, I do get some slight algae, which I have to clean from the glass every water change (once a week about 20-30%), but the tank is cycled. I've got it set up (with livestock) for about 6 weeks now. Ammonia 0; Nitrite 0; Nitrate 5. And the haziness is definitely not from algae on the glass.

Valice -- The soil is quite moist when I got the soil. and where do you find the expiry date of the product. I had a look and can't seem to find it.

By the way, I was told in another forum that ADA Malaya and Red Sea Flora base is made by the same company. I do not know if this is true, but The florabase that I use in my other tank is clear as daylight. Although I am using an Eheim 2213 in a 27L tank. But I can observe that when I stir up debris in the florabase tank, debris seem to just fall to the substrate, as if being sucked by the substrate.

Do you guys really think and algae bloom which is likely to happen is the issue. It's been hazy for ......since I had the setup. When I was seting up the tank (filling in water for first time), it was murky for 2 days (can't really see anything in the first day). Is this normal?

[tcampbell]

Yes that is normal for ada tanks which water is added too quickly. 2 days murky

[pringles]

Just for better visualisation. This is my tank after more than a month with livestock.

[pringles]

another picture which shows this 'hazing'

[IMG][/IMG]

[tcampbell]

That is not from the soil. That is an algae problem. the soil will make it look brunish murky but not like that.

Check out this: Similiar problem
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=30864

[pringles]

You sure????

The water in this tank has never been clear before, ever...., even whilst cycling it fishless. I do hope that it is beneficial bacteria bloom.

Damn I thought I knew everything.

[Repz]

i wouldn't worry
i just started using ada amazonia soil 2-3 months ago for my nano
when i first put the stuff in it was quite hazy after a few weeks it cleared right up and now the water is crystal clear

[tcampbell]

However this has been over a month. If bacteria bloom still possible as most tanks aren't fully stable for 2 months.
Nothing else changed.
Glass is clean and not just film on glass? I noticed in one of my tanks that a slight algea film gathered on the glass. I did not see it but when I drained the water noticed it, cleaned it and the tank looked much better. Clear.

[StanChung]

I'd remove the fishes and shrimps and do a 'WIWO'-water in water out. Remove water till there's only 4-5 inches and put water in thru a hose with dispersing attachment. On the opposing side add a hose to siphon water out. Do this till the water is crystal and remove the 'water out' hose and let it fill to the top. You have to constantly add a little water conditioner to rid of the chlorine as the water fills.

Discus and cory's like to mess with the substrate and cause some cloudiness, it's good to create fine sand areas for them to graze.

I'd also check if the filter's clogged. Seeding it as necessary after unclogging.

[troyz]

Just for better visualisation. This is my tank after more than a month with livestock.

hi bro...yours hazy...my worst tea-coloured water...its been 2 months already

[pringles]

Hi Guys,

Campbell -- I am absolutely certain that the glass is spotless. I make sure I clean the glass with one of those magic cleaner sponges when I do a water change. They work a treat. I do get some algae on the sponge.

Stan -- I have just done one of those a while back. CO2 incident (about 3 weeks ago from a dupla regulator -- I think I should start another thread about this), which I don't think is in any way linked to this haziness. I did a WIWO for about an hour.

Troyz -- Sorry to hear you have the problem. Did you use the sand version of ADA. I heard the add peat into the sand version. If that's the case, it could be cause by tanins andit should be easily removed by carbon is it not?

[StanChung]

Hmmm, in this case I think the tank is still cycling?

[pringles]

Could you further explain Stan.

[StanChung]

As in bacteria bloom. I've seen a few tanks not 100% cycled although they are more than one month into it's setup. I'd just leave it or add some beneficial bacteria to speed up the process.

[a_scape]

Friends, I have a tips to clear up the water in short period...

You can add (temporary) one Eheim Classic 2217 (with debit 1000 liters / hr) and fill-in (all) with the original Eheim carbon media.
Normally within 7 to 14 days it will become crystal clear and off-course it will be helped if in every 3 days you change 20% of the water.

Once the water is stable and clear the you can take out the Eheim