Apistogramma spp. - Anyone seen any high quality/standard ones lately?

[juilian75]

Seen them lately? This standard?







looking for them?

[doppelbanddwarf]

Wow all look great! juilian75 you have them now?

[PLee]

very veri nice.... are those in the photos yours or from another place?

[genes]

The Apistogramma eremnopyge looks really awesome. Red cheeks and strong blue lips. Superb specimen!

To answer your question, i'm not sure if you can find such specimens in Singpapore. Of course sometimes, good specimens does appear in our LFS. For example, biotope did bring in Ap. eremnopyge (also known as "strawberry") before. Sometimes, nice Ap. agassizii appears in C328. And recently, nice Ap. baenschi was spotted at NKS. You just have to be at the right place at the right time to scoop them before someone else does.

Btw, the Ap. macmasteri do not look "high standard" to me though. Body and head shape looks awkwardly deformed to me.

[illumnae]

those are very nice apistos!

is this thread about those 3 species of apistos in particular, or any type of apistos of that standard of quality?

this might seem egoistic, but i honestly think my Apistogramma bitaeniata "Tefe Bauna" is of that standard it has super high finnage and very clean and pronounced colouration as well. my Apistogramma elizabethae "Super Red" isn't as of good quality, but not that far behind!

[valice]

looking for them?

You bringing them in? Or you know someone selling them?

[juilian75]

When H2O was bringing them in from Germany many years ago, the prices were very reasonable. Never above the $100 mark per pair.
BTW the Macs were from H2O, Agas from Sam and the Fresa from Far East.


As for the prices nowadays, I am sure they are way too high. But cost is relative to the buyer, so no comments on that la.

[yorky]

Anyway, I hope you come back to playing with this fish as you are one of the most prolific hobbyist-breeder I know(heard you got some Inkas too? )

By the way, your Ap. eremnopyge is one of the best I've seen.. don't you miss those days?

[genes]

So another Sempai.... come back! I suppose the prices are just going to get crazier as Brazil is now controlling export of wild caught fishes from their rivers.

[wiki]

New to the forum here. Let's hear it from the dwarf lovers please...

[Wackytpt]

Definite quality Apisto?

What is quality apisto to you might not be to another.

Maybe you can give more definition / points that define quality?

Cheers

For me, I will go for features of the fishes. Wild specimen or german breed (Whelmi strained). But at times, farm bred fishes do have good quality too.

[wiki]

Well said. Quality means coloration and body features. I think you'll agree too.

Wilds are preferred but not every wild specimen means quality. I've seen wilds from Peru looking worse than commercially bred specimens.

Specimens from Wilhem....how often do we have bloodlines from Wilhem in SG?

Farm bred...I'll go with that to a certain extent. Czech, German and Taiwan yes. Indonesia & SG....hmmm.

[illumnae]

i think i can safely say that the quality of the apistos in singapore is good. while we have not yet achieved the standards of germany, hongkong or taiwan yet, even in this forum alone we have hobbyists who keep and breed fish of a high standard (surf around this subforum for some pictures). These hobbyists also bring in quality fish from other locations to improve on the quality here. we also have an LFS that regularly brings in good quality apistos from Germany or even nice farm bred ones.

All in all, i would say that generally speaking, we do have quality apistos in singapore =)

[wiki]

=) I really meant the commercial aspect of it. I used to keep apistos for a long time until I was driven to make purchases from abroad because it was not easy to find quality specimens locally. It was a frustrating experience for me.

I'm sure there are dwarf lovers who share the same experience. That's why they are buying their apistos overseas and bringing them back for the the love of the hobby.

[benny]

Quality specimens are definitely out there, but not here (although there are exceptions). Quality usually comes at a price, which I'm sure many can afford, but may not be willing to pay.

When these fishes are available on the order list, local shops can bring them in. But the local demand is not strong enough and they may be stuck with the remainder of the shipment. Unsold fishes requires maintainence in terms of water change and feed. This is added cost incurred besides the original cost of fish plus transportation. In addition there is the opportunity cost of stocking something else in the tank if the fishes move quickly. Therefore, it does not make commercial sense to stock these high quailty fishes except on order basis. However, a lot of hobbyists would prefer to sight the fishes first before they buy it and are therefore unwilling to commit to an order.

On a small and infrequent order basis, the shop's cost structure goes up. Simply a case of buy more, save more. Well travelled hobbyists start to compare prices and variety and feels that it's better to buy them from China/Hong Kong/Japan/Germany/Taiwan/Malaysia. And in fact, many do and some don't even travel. They just buy them off the internet. Which makes it even more challenging for shops who is trying to built up a base to serve the local customers better.

It's a vicious cycle...

On the subject of quality, it's subjective as some have already pointed out earlier. For me, form and color are clear indicators. Even overseas, whilst there may be quantity, quality is not always guaranteed. It's just that with a larger base of hobbyists and more importers, chances are higher.

Cheers,

[yorky]

SG? Getting good!
Recent commercially-bred batches from C328 has been improving.
Very value for money in my humble opinion.

Wild fishes will always give you the element of collecting the fish in its 'natural splendour'. So I don't know what is quality wild-caught.
And it will be unpredictable, that is the nature of buying wild-caught fishes.

Actually, the only commercially-bred Apistogrammas that I have experienced as 'quality' (based on what I understand in this context) is from the German-breeder Frank Wilhelm.
They have good form and colour and the 'quality' breeds through.

If we can try to avoid what has been commonly associated as German-quality for Apistogrammas. What does that denote?
Is there a certain standard that comes with that?

[Wackytpt]

Yorky,

I do agree with you on the apisto that Mrs Toh from C328 brings in. The standard of the apisto are slowly improving. I believe recently one of the member got a stunning Ap Macmasteri.

I was also amused when I saw people put German Quality Apisto.

I don't think there are such apisto known as german quality apisto. Correct me if I am wrong, in my limited knowledge of apisto keeping, Germany doesn't have any wild apisto to be caught.

The only wild apisto are from Peru and Brazil.

Basically my understanding of german bred apisto are those bred under the Famous Frank Wilhelm. His fishes are well known to be fantastic colouration.

Used to own one of his fishes. Its wow!

[genes]

Hi wiki

Firstly, welcome back to the hobby. Its not all doom and gloom in our local apisto scene like you put it to be. Perhaps you would like to drop by some shops to see the quality of "SG" apistos.

The quality have certaintly improved and the number of species available have also increased. Shops like Biotope, Eco-culture have made several runs on apistos from overseas. Of course, you cannot expect every single piece of specimen to be of high quality within the shipment but there are some that are within that specification.

I'm not sure during your time what is available locally, but now, to name a few, you get to see T. candidi, Ap. macmasteri, Ap. agassizii "tefe" and even Ap. elizabethae at a 3 digit price tag and the list goes on...

[Quixotic]

Hmm... as I understand it, German-quality Apistogrammas actually meant German-bred quality Apistogrammas.

[wiki]

WOW! Great to hear the frank views from local hobbyists. I personally think Benny's reply hit the nail on the head! Perhaps its time I revisit local shops again to see how they've improved over the years?

Just to paint a clearer pic here, there are commecially bred apistos from Germany, not just from Wilhem. AQUARIUM GLASER & AQUARIUM DIESTZENBACH and a few others do commercial breeding of apistos.