Question on Apistos F series

[Jungle-mania]

Why is it that other cichlids do not have an issue of genetic degradation in its offsprings like discus and angelfishes? If we were to take a step further, we never hear of african cichlids having this issue too. I understand that inbreeding leads to genetic degradation, which might explain the case of the apistos, but those that mean the other fishes despite their brilliant colours are actually genetically inferior?

[illumnae]

i think every species of animal, even non-fishes, will display genetic degradation with inbreeding. apistos do show the degradation in colouration like discus and angelfish do, but weaker colouration is not the only way the genetic degradation is shown. it can be weaker offspring that are more succeptible to disease, it can be genetic deformaties etc.

[Jungle-mania]

Then how is it that discus and angelfishes have stronger colouration in their offsprings? Plus I do not see any great deficiency in their immunity. I always wondered how our local breeders mix and match to get the right colours. As for those who breed altums, their DOA is very high, it is hard to be choosy in getting any pair of altums just for mating. You do not see F series for them.

[trident]

In-breeding amoung discus for too many generations will cause genetic degration too. Usually stop at F2, then out cross them. One of the problem of in-breeding is deformity. Deficiency in immunity system do happen too, the young fish will fall sick and die easily.

[Jungle-mania]

Ah OK, so how is it we don't do the same with Apistos here?

[mavarick]

These South American Dwarf Cichlids are already very fantastic looking.... No need to further enhance them. In my opinion, such as ap. viejita II are already god-like (not in looks but in price also)... Wish I could afford one...

[genes]

Why is it that other cichlids do not have an issue of genetic degradation in its offsprings like discus and angelfishes? If we were to take a step further, we never hear of african cichlids having this issue too. I understand that inbreeding leads to genetic degradation, which might explain the case of the apistos, but those that mean the other fishes despite their brilliant colours are actually genetically inferior?

You sure african cichlids does not have genetic degradation? I too think all animals show genetic degradation when inbreed. If you were to compare a good specimen with one that is the result of inbreeding, you may see a difference. As trident explained, to prevent inbreeding, breeders cross their breeding pairs or fries to keep the strain strong.

Ah OK, so how is it we don't do the same with Apistos here?

For a start, the market here is not big enough to warrant such activities, hence you will not see farms doing stuffs like that. Only serious small time breeders may be willing to do it for the sake of extending the hobby. Lots of discipline is required to perform crossing, you must have at least 2 or more breeding pairs. Lots of space to house the fries from the pairs and more space to house fries you want to cross and the permutation goes on and on.. But then again, it can be a mammoth task and how many small time breeders are willing to put in the time and effort and have, say 5 or more tanks to perform crossing?

These South American Dwarf Cichlids are already very fantastic looking...

Actually, Ap. viejita II is a special aquarium strain of Ap. viejita that has been colour enhanced by this german breeder Wilhelm, hence the viejita II trade name. You won't see such redness in wild Ap. viejita. So there is a possibility that they have been genetically enhanced.