Reply With QuoteHI Eyal, could you show us some images of this kind ok mosses?
Is this the same moss ?
I bought on ebay a moss called star moss aka Tortula ruralis
HI Eyal, could you show us some images of this kind ok mosses?
Daniele Maxia
Here a pic of star moss :
I'm not sure which is Star Moss but the moss in the picture looks exactly like the moss we know as Cement Moss. If it's Cement Moss, then the scientific name should be Hyophila involuta.
For more information on Cement Moss, please take a look at this post.
Loh K L
timebomb , thanks for your reply
I think also those two moss are the same - the seller gave me that name and the scientific name : Tortula ruralis
I also bought some of the 'star moss' from an ebay seller in Malaysia, which is labelled as Tortula ruralis.
I looked under the microscope and its absolutely not Tortula (or Synthrichia) ruralis. That moss has a a long excurrent nerve that forms a silvery toothed hair point. The margins of the leaf are rather smooth not dentate. It is also a moss of very dry habitats including deserts.
The ebay moss on the other hand has a shortly excurrent nerve that forms a short thick point. The margins at the end of the leaf are denticulate (toothed). It looks exactly like the picture posted by KL, and they are probably the same thing. I can't see exactly where the nerve ends on that picture however. KL does the nerve end in a blunt point, just beyond the leaf margin?
Why someone would call it Tortula ruralis when its so obviously not is a mystery. My theory is that they first called it 'star' moss because of its appearence. Then someone looked up 'star moss' on the net and found that star moss is the common name for Tortula ruralis. What do you think?
Most Tortulas are dry region mosses but there is a Tortula (Synthrichia) that would probably make a good aquarium moss and which I would like to get my hands on and that is T. latifolia (the water srew moss) Image link: http://www.mossimages.pwp.blueyonder...alatifolia.htm
It grows by the water where it is frequently flooded and covered in silt.
Anyone come across anything like that please let us know.
regards
Stephan
Malta
Hi, Stephan,
It's good to see your post.
I'm not sure what you mean by nerve ends but I checked my database and found another picture of the Cement Moss. It's not much better than the other one but perhaps, it would be useful to you. Here's the pic:
Actually, I have no doubts in my mind that the so-called Star Moss is the same as the one we know as Cement Moss. It's also no mystery to me why some people would deliberately choose to ignore the "Cement Moss" name and use the "Star Moss" name instead. The reason is obvious. It's because the Star name sells whereas the Cement one won't.
I'm sure there are many honest plant dealers in Malaysia but more than one plant dealer based in that country have been known to use my pictures (without my permission) many times to sell their mosses on ebay and aquabid. It's no surprise to me that they will deliberately choose to confuse the market if it serves their needs. We are dealing with people who come here to milk this site for all the information they can get, contribute nothing and knowingly cause confusion by using all sorts of names to sell their plants. These people - I call them scum.
Loh K L
Thanks for the photo KL. Unfortunately I can't see the tip of the nerve because its out of focus. But it does not really matter as it does not affect the ID.
The ID as Hyophila involuta makes sense as its a moss that lives on calcareous substrates near water and even in water. In Canada it appears to be spread by boats travelling north from the US. (see http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=000...OR-enlargePage )
In your regions it probably finds the calcareous nature of the concrete to its liking, but since it is not limited to concrete, and since there are probably many other mosses that live on concrete, I personally don't think 'cement moss' is a good name. Neither is 'Star moss' as that is already the common name for Tortula ruralis.
I think simply saying 'Hyophila' would be easier and exact to use.
best regards
Stephan
I just did a little experiment with the ebay moss. I let it dry out! One main characteristic of Hyophila is that when they dry the leaves roll inward from the margins like scrolls, hence the name 'involuta'. Related mosses like Tortula have revolute leaf margins. The leaves roll towards the bottom (abaxial surface). So KL you are right they are the same moss.
Another name for Hyophila involuta was H ripararia which shows that it lives in riparian habitats ie by streams and rivers.
The common English name that is used worldwide is HYOPHILA MOSS
see http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRp...ch_value=16708
so with all due respect to everone here I do not think 'Star moss' or 'Cement moss' should remain being used. (Why call a chair a fork? Its already got a name)
One practical aspect for the hobbyist is that H involuta is listed as a heliophile (sun lover) so it will probably only grow well in brightly lit conditions, unlike other mosses in the hobby, and unlike the recommendations by some sellers. This would explain why many aquarists have not had success with this moss.
best regards
Stephan
You brought up a good point, Stephan. Why give the moss a common name when there's already one in use?Originally Posted by stephan
To tell the truth, if I had known that Hyophila involuta already has a common name, I would definitely not have suggested the "Cement Moss" name. But then again, if I had known that the common name is "Hyophila Moss", I would have considered giving it another common name instead.
Although there are no hard and fast rules for common names, I think it defeats the purpose if the common name uses the same Latin word from the scientific name. The whole idea of giving an organism a common name is so that the man-in-the-street does not have to wrack his brains trying to remember a complicated Latin word. We have to bear in mind that Latin is a dead language and Latin words are largely unpronounceable and impossible-to-remember for the average hobbyist. As it is, even the experts often get the pronunciation wrong.
I'm fully aware that generally, the serious hobbyist has no problems remembering the scientific names but usually they are the English-educated ones. In Singapore, there is a large community of people in the aquaria scene who speaks no English. The owners of Bioplast fish shop are a good example. They sell a wide variety of mosses but they speak Mandarin and a variety of Chinese dialects. They know only a smattering of English words. If we were to insist that they use only scientific names for their mosses, it would be like asking them for the impossible. And the way things are, in the absence of an "official" common name, people often make up their own. In the hobby today, we see a profusion of silly names like "US fissidens" for "Fissidens fontanus" and "Round Pellia" for the fern gametophyte "Lomariopsis lineata". I've even heard that there's a "Thai Fissidens" and a "Japanese Pellia" but I really have no idea what mosses are these.
Here in Killies.com, we try very hard to promote appropriate common names for the various aquarium mosses We fully understand that what's appropriate to some may not seem as appropriate to others but we are always open to suggestions. We suggested using "Cement Moss" for "Hyophila involuta" because we were told that here in Singapore, the moss is often found growing on concrete walls. You are right to point out that probably it's not the only moss that grows on such surfaces but I would argue that the Cement name is still appropriate.
With many of the aquarium mosses, we had a hard time coming up with good common names. The mosses often look quite similar to one another and when we discover its country of origin, it's very rare that it's the only country the moss can be found. So, if we cannot give it a common name based on its appearance or its country of origin, what do we go on?
It was here in Killies.com, that the names "Flame Moss", "Spiky Moss", "Fountain Moss", "Zipper Moss", "Weeping Moss", "Singapore Moss","Doormat Moss", "Anchor Moss", "Loma Fern" were first heard. If we had our way, we would have renamed "Taiwan Moss" and "Mini-Pellia". We are not even sure the former is from Taiwan and as for the latter, it isn't even a Pellia. But the "Taiwan Moss" name was already in circulation before this forum was created and we were too late to give the "Riccardia sp" a better name before "Mini-Pellia" took hold.
We don't claim we are an authority on the common names but usually, we consult the people in the business and the Professor before we announce a common name for a new aquarium moss. We try out best to promote appropriate names because we know that in the absence of any "official" common name, the market is likely to come up with a silly one.
Loh K L
Hi KL, hope you did not take offense at my suggestion of Hyophila moss. I fully acknoledge the great work you have done with identification of aquarium grown mosses together with the Professor. The moss hobby has come a long way since you named and distribituted Christmas moss. And the strange and sometimes funny names such as erect moss have probably helped.
I think you do acknowledge the problem with common names is that they are not static. People come up with their own names as has been done here, cement was not liked so why not star. And they have a habit of evolving. Remember when people thought that the liverwort being sold 5 years ago was Pellia endiviifolia. The common name Pellia was being used. Then Tropica said it was actually Monosolenium. Pellia kept being used, and that was a scientific name. Now we have mini Pellia, round Pellia...
Unfortunately the name Cement moss has not picked up like Christmas moss, and there are at least two traders selling it as Star moss. Using the name Hyophila should mean the same thing to everyone. We do use scientific names as common names many times Crypts, Elatine, Fissidens come to mind.
Anyway this is how new languages are formed. Babel. Nothing new.
Continue with the good work, more mosses please!
best regards
Stephan
Don't worry about it, Stephan. I wasn't offended by your question. In fact, I was delighted by it as it gave me an opportunity to explain our stand.
I do understand that with common names, it's sometimes better to let matters take its course but the example you quoted - Monosolenium tenerum being wrongly called as Pellia endiviifolia even after Tropica has made the correction - isn't a good one. In that instance, someone made a genuine mistake with the identity but with the mix-up over the "Star" and "Cement" moss names, I'm quite certain the sellers know which were the mosses they were selling. They deliberately choose to ignore the "Cement" name for the simple reason it won't sell as well as the "Star" name.
Loh K L
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