I not heard much from others and I am looking to see what else I might use here

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Now I had post what equipment im planning to get or switch to as the tanks progresses forward. The selection again as is are;

Calcium Reactors > PF601 $752.00 "240"
Calcium Reactors > PF501 $651.00 "150"
Calcium Reactors > PF501 $651.00 "180"
Fluidized Reactors > FR509 $209.00
Fluidized Reactors > FR509 $209.00
Fluidized Reactors > FR616 $778.00 "240"
Kalkwasser Stirrers > KM500 $439.00
Kalkwasser Stirrers > KM500 $439.00
Kalkwasser Stirrers > KM500 $439.00
Protein Skimmers > APF600 $885.00 "180"
Protein Skimmers > AP600 $645.00 "150"
Protein Skimmers > AP702 $1,851.00 "240"

Now as of right this moment, only one person speaks out that I not need to simply get the high priced Deltec equipment, I even called this person long distance to speak with one on one, I live as you can see in Hillsborough NC and the person I called lives in Washington State.
That is how serious I am in trying to discover what I could best do here for i also told other through the years that they not needed to buy the most expensive or simply best on the line equipment for their tanks, but rather buy what works the best for what their in mind to accomplish. Myself for this matter is also doing something a bit differ from anything I done before, with the 180 and 240 that is.

Now, there is no one person who can know all the types of skimmers, calcium & phosphate reactors as well as Kalk reactors in which I read is supposed to do so much better for a reef tank. As well a Kalk stirrers which I might only get for the 240 gal tank, I not made my mind up as yet, but there is time and right now, as the person I spoke to on the phone, I need to get as many other ideas in this what I could possibly do.
The skimmer that Mark mention on the phone was not so differ in price to the deltec model im to get later on for the 150 and late last night, I even seen reactors costing more then twice as much, the phosphate reactors that is and people think that $200 is crazy. Now a $100 or so more and it holds more media and is to be better, I can deal with that. What is $100 or so in the scheme of things? Hardy nothing at all really, is it? I always told this through many a years that I would rather pay a feel more bucks and have something better then to go cheap wise.

Mark is going to think of some things in which he will bring to my attention and if something differ to the skimmer I will get, I would be needing to know of this real soon for the sump for the 150 is to be setup right now for the Deltec skimmer which is 11.5 by 8" in wight and being that the er skimmer the tank will start will is 9x9", the box area for the skimmer will be set for the deltec skimmer of 11.5x9"

Now these just happens to be a great many reactors out there and it would be great to hear ideas between the Kalk and calcium reactor and I do know of a number of hobbyists who are using both. I figure im to get one shot at this and im hoping for no further delays in the enjoyment of these tanks.

I even told Mark on the phone why the idea of having later on the Deltec skimmer AP702 for $1,851.00. For if the tank was ordered correctly, I still would had need of a skimmer that cost somewhat around $1200 and here im to spend when ready to start the 240 is another near $700. Now to have another stand build for the 240, its figured that it would cost somewhere near $2,000 and then were the labor to remove the other stand and as well the sump as well needs to be change to a custom build, all glass.

So that is how I came about to a near $1,900 skimmer and all that has to be done so it could fit is to cut the panel over the sump area giving the skimmer the extra head room of about 3"

Now Jeff for the time being had ruined this dream tank, but it will in later years rise again as a dream tank and those who take part in their best suggestion to equipment or so can feel later, also the joy from accomplishing something out of this "MESS" Because, if I was to do all these things on the 240, the stand, lights and sump, were not to count in the skimmer for then it could run me another $6-7,000 with labor. That is why I look for other ways around doing something as that and that is where the Deltec AP702 comes into play. Also, I did have the idea of the ATI bubble master which is priced so much less, now im quite sure the Deltec will do great, But is have to question myself of the ATI bubble master 250. The ATI would also fit without cutting the panel for the over head of the sump, so for now, being that I will have much time to debate this idea, the talk on this will come up again.

So let`s hear it from you younger people out there, or is it that you feel you cannot teach some old man any new tricks

Buddy

[BFG]

Hello Buddy!

Here's my choice of equipment if I was doing something similar to yours according to the choices of equipment you listed.

Calcium Reactors > PF601 $752.00 "240"
Protein Skimmers > AP702 $1,851.00 "240"
Kalkwasser Stirrers > KM500 $439.00

As for fluidized reactor, I believe a cheaper brand would do the same job. The money saved might be used to purchase higher quality media like Rowaphos. For the Calcium reactor, get the biggest model you could afford as it will prolong the need to top up the calcium media. Same goes for the kalkwasser reactor. I did not know about this tip before starting on my setup and had bought the smallest Deltec Calcium reactor available. I'm starting to look at the Deltec Kalkwasser reactor as I have gone through 2 locally made kalkwasser reactor that had used magnetic stirrer. Quite expensive to replace the magnetic stirrer and I should have went for the Deltec ones at the beginning.

My equipment choice for my 120g.
Skimmer-Deltec APF600
Calcium Reactor-Deltec P501
Kalkwasser Reactor-Locally made (not happy with this, will upgrade )
Fluidized reactor-2x 2 Little Fishies fluidized reactor
Return pump-Red Dragon 8m3
Chiller-Mitsubishi Starmex aircon compressor
Lighting-Solite 4x54w and 2x54w (actinic) ( not happy with this, will upgrade )

I am not having a high paying job but had saved a considerable amount of money to start this hobby. My research into this hobby had directed me to use Deltec equipment where it is needed. A buddy of mine who had upgraded his setup also uses Deltec skimmer so that has placed a positive reinforcement for my choice of brand to use.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Im right this moment looking up on the Geo reactors and I found this one for a large reef tank, Geo 624. But its at a height of 29" and it wouldn't fit under either tank of the 180 or 240.

The Geo 618 is 24" in height and could be fitted under either of the tanks, the 240 for this reactor would also need to be fitted by cutting the over head panel of the sump.

Kalkwasser Reactor, Geo Kalk 618 22"

I see also at saltycritter that they offer Package deals>

Now I see what Brandt meant on the Scuran for he not spelled it right by leaving out the "H" LOL

Also I be taking a look at PRECISION MARINE Reactors>

Kalk, KR620 ?
C-1502 KORALLIN KALKREAKTOR - FOR UP TO 400G>

Premium Aquatics GEO Calcium Reactor - 6 x 12> PA-GEO612 I I already a reactor on the 180, how well it operates at this time isnt known, but if I see that a change is required, if not the deltec, then some other reactor.. But I need to set my goal and stick with it with not making so many changes.

As far as the skimmer goes, up till now I only used the Euroreef on all my tanks. That is why I have some ER skimmers just setting around collecting dust. So I not know so many other skimmers being that for the last 15 years if that, I only delt with the ER. But if it is that the skimmer price of the suggestions others can make not make all that much a difference, then I think I rather stick with the Deltec if there be no disagreement.
Also, I forgotten who suggested this, but should I only put my efforts in doing the 180 first (only)? The 150 will be put in and slowly I will change over the LR and sand bed from the 240 into the 150. I must admit, that if I were to attempt to stock both the 150 and 180 at the same time, I not know how smooth that would go and it would be so much simple to do one tank at a time, after all, I am on disability and have my financial limits, but still I wish to do the best I can in my tanks equipment. And even if i were to go with one tank at a time here, the situation can be delt with.

Now i know there is always those who agree and not, but im not hearing as much on the idea from a calcium and Kalk reactor, or if I should use both like a number who are, but i cannot get their views on this.

Even that I stuck it out till this point and still am getting ready to start even one tank after so long of delays what if the person who were first responsible to install these tanks, or if i had any number of changes through that waiting period. Which one of those changes were a few times for I was as sick as the thought be, was to call it quits and only because I trusted the wrong person to do this for me.

But my love and passion for the hobby prevails and besides, after soaking in so many thousands of dallors and just to quit is a sicken thought. So the passion remains and im still to do the final tanks of my hobbyist years and is why more so, I want to make that 240 as best as I can.

So in the Geo and PM reactors, I can make no solid choices there, being that I never used them before

So if any changes can be agreed upon, those who suggested other products really need to tell me why a Geo or so equipment be better to go with. I also not know if in the cost of the Deltec reactors if I need to add on another few hundred dallors for the CO2 and Regulator and whatever else I would need for this.

This is what I meant people by we need to stay in this part first of the tanks equipment or so for Im not ready as yet to ask things like suggestions for critters to best help clean the tanks DSB, or sump. I need to take this one step at a time and if I not hear from those of their best views to go with a Geo or so, the listing of each tanks equipment will stand as is.

So yes, I can mange the same with a cheaper phosphate reactor and if it make someone other thrn myself, which one then?

On the 240 when made ready;
Fluidized Reactors > FR616 $778.00 "240"
Kalkwasser Stirrers > KM500 $439.00
Calcium Reactors > PF601 $752.00 "240"
Protein Skimmers > AP702 $1,851.00 "240" (Other choice is the ATI bubble master 250 & is les then half the cost)

Now the ATI BM is good up to 500 gals or so, I seen a photo on ones tank and it lokk to be a good strong skimmer. But later if its a matter of extra insurance for the tanks bio load, I will have to go with the Deltec at this time.

So the skimmers aren't I believe are in question here by some, but rather the reactors. So now is the time for those to make their points and please list model and the equipment tank requirements. I am with an open mind here if something can be added to the thought on having and if its only a matter of costing me less then a $150, I not see to where the matter here. So it matters not im a disabled Vet and retired, and I retired a bit early then I wanted to. So if any further ides here, please lets hear it now. And again I like to Thanks those who assisted me in this matter a great deal and those few do know who they are.

I also seen phosphates for $450 or more, crazy> Well, i hope that I have that all cleared to what Im best looking for and if I come up against a close door on the subject, im just to get the deltec and nothing else, I need models and their links to help what im looking at, I Thank those for their time in the assistance they had giving me.

So I need to set me a plan of action> Thanks

Buddy

[BFG]

Hmm, I would say stocking both tank at the same time would be a mistake financially. I would suggest getting started on the 240 1st and use the 180 as a spare tank to cycle the live rocks and such. You could setup all the equipment on the 240 and use the ER skimmer on the 180 to cycle the live rock.

If the live rock has done cycling, you could slowly take your time to arrange the live rock in the 240 until it met with your satisfaction.

Geo is a brand unavailable in our part of the world ( Singapore ) and I can't give a remark about it. What is available in my country are Deltec, HnS, Tunze, Hydor and some China and Taiwan brand. You can see why I'd go for Deltec.

For the Calcium reactor, yes you'll need a co2 cylinder and a solenoid and regulator to control the co2 output. But you'll also need a ph controller for the calcium reactor. You can control the amount of co2 going into the calcium reactor via the regulator on the co2 cylinder but the ph controller will control the level of co2 in the calcium reactor. This setup is used during lights on.

For the Kalkwasser reactor, it should be connected to a container of freshwater via a auto top-up water device. There are a number of products out there but I am currently using the Tunze Osmolator. No complaint so far. This setup is used after lights off.
http://www.tunze.com/149.html?&L=1&C..._tunzeprod_pi1[predid]=-infoxunter036

Buddy, I've realised something. Could you lift up the calcium and kalkwasser reactor when you need to do some maintenance when they are full ? It might be a problem in the future.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

BFG, the 240 ideal would be a very bad idea to look to start this tank first, it needs not just the lights, but a new and larger sump and lets not forget that deltec skimmer for $1,851

I will be able to start eight the 180 or 150 for all I need to do on eight tanks as far as I know is the calcium reactor on the 150 and upgrade the MH to 250 watts on the 180 around the middle of march.

Buddy, I've realised something. Could you lift up the calcium and kalkwasser reactor when you need to do some maintenance when they are full ? It might be a problem in the future.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

BFG, the 240 ideal would be a very bad idea to look to start this tank first, it needs not just the lights, but a new and larger sump and lets not forget that deltec skimmer for $1,851

I will be able to start eight the 180 or 150 for all I need to do on eight tanks as far as I know is the calcium reactor on the 150 and upgrade the MH to 250 watts on the 180 around the middle of march.

Buddy, I've realised something. Could you lift up the calcium and kalkwasser reactor when you need to do some maintenance when they are full ? It might be a problem in the future.

The only weight in them are the wet media, I should be able to left them out if needed be, I only need to get a chair into position so that my body weight would be supported while my arms and hands left it out from the sump or whatever position they be settled at.

I something else to tell you, on the ER skimmers I have, I not know just how happy i will be with them, I not remember who it was, but one thing I did forget about the impellers and that is they wear out and need to be replaced. I brought two new Sedra 5000 impellers, I will clean the skimmers and have them ready for use on the 180 and 150.

If these skimmers run like they once did, I wont be changing them until everything is completely stock in all three tanks, I could call you and tell you better over the phone to all of what I mean by this. Im looking right now, for the best possible way I could get first the equipment which I have more need of. And if the ER skimmers can do well until the final stocking of the 240 gal tank, then I could take it at my time and get deltec skimmers for both the 180 and 150.

If I was to look to start the 240 first, the delay would go well into the end of the year of 2008 for I nee the near $2,000 skimmer to get, and a new sump the sump itself might cost me $650 and with it, the 250 watt MH in which should run better then $2,000... So im figuring a round figure of not less then $7,500 with labor.

This is why I figured that I will in time remove the LR and sand bed from the 240, into the 150. And of course, the lights will go on the 150. So for now, i will pay nothing extra on the 150 with lights, LR and sand bed. As well as the chiller and skimmer. So all I should need top start this tank out, is the calcium reactor and at a time the lights on the 180 is being done, i WILL THEN GET BOTH PHOSPHATE REACTORS.

So now what you think, I thought you understood this from earlier. Or do you think it be better I first stock the 180? The lights would still be completed around the same time for as is, the tank needs to age with a number of corals and fish.

I could still get the Kalkwasser reactors and I think they can be HOB of the reservoir tank as the phosphate reactors will HOB of the sump.
Im telling you, taking care of my three younger grandchildren is a lot easier then doing these tanks, LMBO

Buddy

[BFG]

Hahaha.....I had earlier thought that you have the 180 and the 240 but I can agree with you on starting the 150 1st. Start with what you are comfortable with, this is a hobby you know and it doesn't need to complicate you further, with 3 grandchildren in tow.

Since the 150 will use the live rock from the 240, you will have all the space and time to find the right arrangement for the live rock. Take things slow and if you felt any strain, take a breather.

As for Kalkwasser addition, since you are going to set up 3 tank, why not connect the kalkwasser to all 3 tanks? Get as large a kalkwasser reactor and connect the output to all 3 tanks. The reactor need to be placed centrally and out of the stand. Instead of getting 3 kalkwasser reactor and 3 water top-up devices, you'll need 1 kalkwasser reactor and 3 water top up device. I do not know whether this is practical but it's a worthy idea at the moment.

I hope the ER skimmer would work out for you. This brand is also unavailable in my country.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Yes, I been having both the 180 and 240 for some years now since after I moved into this house. But as I stated, the 240 was done like a sloppy mess needing much cost to rebuild it so that the dream I had with it would still flourish> Im also comfortable to start with either the 180 or 150, for I not like the old calcium reactor which is on the 180. And this Jeff person only delivered part of the calcium reactor for the 240 without the CO2 .
So I said that I will move this reactor over to the 180 and the only thing I will need to do is a few months later to upgrade the MH from 175 watts to 250 watts MH bulbs (double ended) If you feel it be more ideal to deal with one tank at a time, when the 150 comes in, it would be setup, but it will stay dry until the 180 is 3/4 full with live stock.

The lights would still however be switch over from the 240 and later I can move the LR and sandbed. Now yes, i could do this the other way by starting with the 150 and all I would need at first is the calcium reactor and other then the cost to change over the 180 likes, I could get the 40 gal tank done for less. So yes, it might be better to start with the 150, but only I not could get any high lighting requirement corals.

Since the 150 will use the live rock from the 240, you will have all the space and time to find the right arrangement for the live rock. Take things slow and if you felt any strain, take a breather.

With the high blood pressure and other medical issues I have, I feel strain from doing to much no matter what it be, even when I do the wash loads at the grandchildrens house to where i help with anything i can and even folding the clothes together, I find that I have to set a spell to catch my breath.

As for Kalkwasser addition, since you are going to set up 3 tank, why not connect the kalkwasser to all 3 tanks? Get as large a kalkwasser reactor and connect the output to all 3 tanks. The reactor need to be placed centrally and out of the stand. Instead of getting 3 kalkwasser reactor and 3 water top-up devices, you'll need 1 kalkwasser reactor and 3 water top up device. I do not know whether this is practical but it's a worthy idea at the moment.

This idea would work I think for both the 180 and 240, but not so well with the 150> The 150 is going into one of the smaller rooms, the one where when the kiddies were babies and their mommy nursed them in that room. The room is about in feet around 65 to 75 feet from the other tanks and the line needed here would need to be more then 100 feet. For, it would need to go a long the wall and up the wall above the door frame and then out into the hallway to go to the other room.

So, this is what I will do now for I think now you will agree that the 150 will be better ready even if it wont have the lighting the 180 and 240 will have. I will start making the water for the 150. I will only be able to make around 100 gals. but it should be enough so that the LR will be submerged or wet while I continue to fill the tank. I will see later if i can pick up 32 gal rubbermaids trash cans and manage to make the full amount of water the 150 would need.

I still enough instant ocean salt here, I enough left to make 650 gals of seawater.I keep my main reef tanks at a salinity of 1.025-26 and im thinking to once the QT is rebuild to have that like around 1.023-24. Im going to see what the 40 I have here would cost to do the things i want with it, and it will have a sump as it now has. The sump will be changed to a tank sump, as large a sump that could fit under the tank. The canopy will need to be a new one, the one that is now on the 40 is to low a canopy for T5.

OK, If I feel that the ER skimmers not work so well for me anymore, you can have them, the part that im concern about is if they will cut off every time there be a short power outage for a second or two. The new impellers should clear that from happening again, but later when their running, time will tell.

Buddy

PS, This is fun, for after all those years I been assisting those with their eels, I final have questions and it matters not tht only a few handfull of hobbyists who are offering their opinions

[BFG]

Yeah man, you've said it! Setting up a marine tank is the fun part. With all the ideas going through the head, you'll wonder whether other hobbies can give the old 'grey matter' in the head a workout unlike setting up a marine tank. I'm always finding out ways to go about it IF I have another opportunity to set another 1 up.

Buddy, what kind of lighting will you use for the 150, will you be going the T5 route?

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Buddy, what kind of lighting will you use for the 150, will you be going the T5 route?

UH-OH, Im the old senile person around here, not you

I will be taking the lights off from the 240 and use on the 150, they are four 175 watt MH with VHO

I know that on the 150 and being that it is 29" tall tank, that I will not be able to get many , or even a few type of SPS corals which could take lower lighting as that. I feel that being the two other tanks will have 250 lights abd in order to do as the same on the 150, it would be needing to have 400 watt MH.

Buddy

[BFG]

.....oops, my mind is in a thousand places right now, what with the coming holiday this weekend, might have forgotten what you've posted earlier.

Well, you could place the sps as near to the light source as possible and also keep them as kinda for future transfer to the large tank. By the time the other tanks are ready to begin, you might have a few would be mother colony for the new tank.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

LR wont be piled so high near to the water line of the tank, but it is a thought to what I might or could do for which one thing is that all the LR in the 240 are small pieces and I a thought on that idea to perhaps take half the LR from the 180, or less then half and add some of the smaller LR to both tanks. I am looking at another thing here, I have lots of LR also in the eel tanks, but I not can have so small pieces in the eel tanks for those would be knock over to easy.

But many of the LR in the goldentails tank are still larger then what are in the 240. I would only need the large pieces for at the bottom. Also normally I not have the LR no more then half or a little more build up in the reef tanks, to allow coral space for growth. If anything I can do if I see a coral I wanted more then anything is that I build a eggcrete shelf that would be hanging from the top of the tank and not less then 6-7 below the water line. I will see if I could manage that idea then to have to build the LR up too high in the tank, which I believe if I can find someway to do that, it would be a better idea. But how long could I keep such corals like that, For I would then have to limit the time that I might have certain corals in that position. This will only be manageable if i can secure a egg crete shelf to the upper part of the tank.

So It sounds to me that you agree that I do start later when im set to start spending again for the tanks to get the reactor and then after that, corals for the 150. I might add in all this that I not know for just how sure this is but yesterday my daughter says that they would like to take the kids to disneyland around February 2008 and they want it that im there as well. When she told me this, I first said to her that I couldn't be able to get cash up in time.

For the time being right now, I need to gt up not less then $2,000 for two things. Property tax and to get the minium delivery on propane, and this year its going to cost more.. So, I told my daughter that I can for the month of January put together $1,000 and since we will drive down there and as it is, I wont be going on all the rides myself for which on the most part, I will be the families official picture taking and I will also be renting a 75-200 MM lens and I think I will need also to buy one more four GB card and that would give me nine GB of memory card to take as many as 3000 pictures or more, I also leave my settings on the largest for better quality photos. I know that the trip will be one week at most and as soon as I know for sure of this, I will place my payment for the rental of the lens as soon as I learn of this.

I just hope that when and if this time comes around that I will have no problems on the rentals for a wheel chair, I in no way could manage all those hours of walking around and even on unleveled grounds. I will when done with the cash money for the property tax and so, will check with my son-in-law on if the trip is on.

So if this trip will be on for Feb. it will put only a one month delay at most and the spending will not be as crazy as I always done for the kids at Xmas time. My daughter told me already that I will buy them each one good thing that they need or toy, etc. Last Xmas just on these few little devils, I spent just on clothes for them a total amount of $850.

So maybe this Xmas i might spend no more then $750 on all 13 kids, WOW, that is a lucky number, LOL On the other nine kids, i look to spend $50 on each. So just maybe, I might get by this Xmas spending less then $1,000 with everyone. But before I can proceed with the 150, I first need to be sure on what if the trip will be on or not. We were talking about taking the kids for more then a year now, so perhaps the idea is coming to reality. The last time I gone to Disney world is when my kids were small. As of right now the way these three little ones are, they argue with me not to leave and I tell them that I will be here tomorrow.

So for as right now, im taking the time to look into the geo and another other calcium reactors an i could onl y find what my seach turns up>

Buddy

[BFG]

Buddy, found a thread in RC about a new conical skimmer that use only a pump and cost less than the Deltec AP702. It's in sump though.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1229782

The website where you can purchase the skimmer.

http://www.atbskimmers.com/

What's available.

http://www.atbskimmers.com/index.php?cat=conical

Best part is it's using Eheim pump instead of Aquabee pump found on Deltec skimmer. Cost lesser than the AP702 too and it looks like it's using a single pump to operate unlike the deltec than need a separate feed pump. More for you to consider for your skimmer choice.

[Old Man Of The Sea]

Thanks, I knew that by the time I would ever begin to look to rebuilding the 240 that other skimmers that I could possibly use will begin to show themselves. I would look further at the Pan Skimmer D250 for $1399, only there are no measurements available yet on this model. But im in thought for the other type of skimmer and as for no idea if it might fit or not, im in question if its really an ideal skimmer to use, for it not look as it be any better then the deltec. I will however when im the time will read the thread at RC in full.

But however, I am with one question and that is on for the lighting for the 180. I will be having 250 watt MH double ended bulbs with other lighting as well. The question be is what would you put in for the best? Thanks

Buddy

[BFG]

Buddy, I have no experience using mh lighting because of the heat issue associated with it. I've been avoiding mh usage all along and are currently using T5 HO ( High Output ). I'm sticking to ATI brand at the moment.But,I'll keep a lookout for you on which bulb to look into.