Eco Culture closing down?

[illumnae]

Just to throw some alternative thoughts into the hat here. instead of putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of the buyers (who can blame people for wanting to pay less?) perhaps the LFS can relook at business models instead? if the same fish and equipment can be sold elsewhere for a much cheaper cost and the LFS selling it at the low price is booming and thriving, certainly it shows what business model works in this particular industry doesn't it?

rare and exotic fish can be priced high due to their scarcity, but when common items and fish are also sold at higher prices, can you really blame the consumer for choosing to go elsewhere? i believe that there's no need for cross subsidisation of common items/fish for rare fish. just price the rare stuff such that costs are covered and a reasonable profit is made, and price the rest competitively. looking at how some LFS in the western area are booming, this seems a realistic course of action on the part of the LFS

Edit: i think BFG's suggestion of mass orders for rare fish is a very good one and very worth exploring. it cuts down on the LFS having to anticipate the market, ordering exactly what the consumers want. after all, if a (wholesale price) 15cents fish dies, it's no big deal...but if a (wholesale price) $15 fish dies, then it's a considerable loss for the LFS

[valice]

if the same fish and equipment can be sold elsewhere for a much cheaper cost and the LFS selling it at the low price is booming and thriving, certainly it shows what business model works in this particular industry doesn't it?

so every shop should follow this model?

[illumnae]

of course not, every shop can choose whatever business model they want...it's a free economy after all i was just pointing out something that works and that can be considered that's all

like i said, it's just some alternative thoughts to the general trend in this thread of blaming the consumers

[Jungle-mania]

Sadly yes to a greater degree for the cheaper stuff, but when you get to higher end stuff, it is very much the opposite. Take a look around at other industries, they share similar business model at the rudimentary level. Some people like flowers in ethanol for perfume going at 1.50 per 1 litre bottle, some like branded perfume at 1K for 150ml. OK, I am exaggerating here, but you get the idea.

Can we meet with the Azmi, Thio, Edmund and the rest? I think this topic is really one sided.

I have brought up before about doing a mass order and so did another forumer, didn't go through, I think this ball is in the LFS court to hit back.

[yorky]

Edit: i think BFG's suggestion of mass orders for rare fish is a very good one and very worth exploring. it cuts down on the LFS having to anticipate the market, ordering exactly what the consumers want. after all, if a (wholesale price) 15cents fish dies, it's no big deal...but if a (wholesale price) $15 fish dies, then it's a considerable loss for the LFS

Bro, if a fish is rare, how do you MO?

[genes]

Haaa...was going to point that out. Take for example Wihelm's apistos. From what i heard, it seems like he does not export in masses. Unlike farms that don't care about selling inbreeding apistos. The last time i saw his shipment, he shipped in only 2 pairs of Ap. diplotaenia and 4 pairs of Ap. elizabethae. So his apistos are sometimes considered rare and thus the price on them. So in this case, how to MO?

[illumnae]

Bro, if a fish is rare, how do you MO?

good point, guess i used the wrong word. exotic fish perhaps? whatever it was that BFG was referring to in his MO suggestion anyway

[wks]

Hi guys, I think this interest generated by the closure of a knowledgeable fish shop is partly due to the fact that some AQ members here have become personal friends of the owner. The loss of a convenient place of gathering, exchange of information or even just chit chat will definitely means more to them than anyone else. But we should also face the reality that these fish shops choose to operate a niche market business model. So if such shops fail to survive, it just proves that our local market is not ready for it.

I believe the only alternative left for experienced hobbyists who want rare/ exotic fish is to form a fish keeping club concentrating on a few types of fish (perhaps apistogramma for a start). The members can set up a seed fund and use this money to place order for some brooding stocks of certain popular species and starts some breeding programmes. This will help maintain interest among like-minded hobbyists and also generate more funds to keep the club going. It’s a very common practice now in many foreign countries.

Can someone from this forum please step forward and says,” I will do it.”?

[David Moses Heng]

For a start lfs could sponsor a tank or two at every primary, secondary schools, JCs and help start an interest/ fish club and teach them the basics in aquarium keeping. Many people have the misconception that keeping fishtank is so very difficult and not for them. That was exactly my impression and the reason behind my initial reluctance when my wife suggested the idea of a fish tank as a school holiday activity to keep my then young kids from getting into mischief.

it's tough... i have tried and got no most of the time until CR steps in to donate the tank set and fellow members of this forum who have donated the stuffs. I was at the school last riday to walk the ground with Peter and the Principal. I have only this to say: The principal IS VERY GRATEFUL to this forum. He has personally visited the monfort thread and he is deeply touched.

[XnSdVd]

-Sigh- I remember telling Thio:

"You know, one of these days i'm going to have to design a 'LFS Conservation: Save the Biotopeshop runbythio' poster... you people are becoming an endangered species"

But who's left anyway?
Biotope?

Perhaps Nature Aquarium? But they're mostly for hardware... Hmm...

[barmby]

I think the forum is to blame. In example, alot more people knows how to breed apisto. Hence, no one wants to buy 'new' apisto from places like biotope and etc. Therefore, refrain from selling the apisto too low in forum - the market will not be spoilt

[barmby]

One of the many reasons Eco Culture foil is because its opening hours are no longer appealing to people who has more spending power. It is only open on hours more suitable for students but not favourable to working adults. To make matter worse, Sunday not open. At night, it only operates till 9pm ? Sigh. I miss the days where I can visit Eco at 11pm after I settle my work in the office. And yes. I miss the Eminent days and Serangoon days..

Therefore, you must know your target market like choy and etc., who will spent $60-$80 for one tetra.

[fisherw]

I think the forum is to blame. In example, alot more people knows how to breed apisto. Hence, no one wants to buy 'new' apisto from places like biotope and etc. Therefore, refrain from selling the apisto too low in forum - the market will not be spoilt

I like to think that sales on the forum serve a slightly different market. On one hand there are students and/or other segments without deep pockets, enthusiasts wanting to try but not wanting to risk an expensive fish dying on them, husbands conscious of their wives' feelings about their expensive hobbies, etc. Then there are sellers who might have tried and finding out that the apistos are hardly seen in their tanks or lucky enough to have them breed and then what to do with the young or moving up from the basic breeds to a more exotic ones or moving to an entire species altogether (they die when you don't want them to or they seem to live forever).

Price-wise, it is probably economics. If the price is as high as the lfs, I might as well buy from the lfs. You can see the goods and often have the choice. Why travel and meet after work and inspect the fish through an unclear plastic bag under the light of a street lamp.

I admit there are forumers who might be doing "part-time" business; i.e. really serious breeding and then selling in quantities. These compete with the lfs. Here, it would be the difficult duty of the moderators (if they so wish to impose the rule) to stop the practice. But this requires consideration of the purpose of the forum and whether it is to promote the hobby, protect the interest of the members/forumers (including buying members buying cheap) or the lfs? And it would be difficult to police (how many fishes before it is considered serious trading?)

I agree with illumnae. Why blame the consumer for wanting to pay less? Unless there is something more; service, professional advice, store loyalty, convenience, comfort. Why is Cold Storage still successful when Sheng Siong is as well? Why suffer the squeeze at the ever popular lfs in Clementi with like fifty other guys when you might be the only one at the other in AMK?

Declaration of conflict of interest: I have been a beneficiary of lower cost fish and equipment from the WTS forumers as well as the generosity of the FOC ones. I have not sold anything, at least not yet as my cacas have not been performing their duties.

[illumnae]

I think at the end of the day, it all boils down to economics and how the various shopkeepers interpret the market and choose their business model based on their interpretation. given the state of the market, some models are sustainable while others aren't, so it's inevitable that some shops that choose to operate certain business models will fall along the way. even if one doesn't have a knowledge of textbook economics, it's a matter of observing the trend and changing to go with the flow.

Consumer attitudes and responses are taken into account in economics, and the main driving force is still cost. Fringe benefits like professional advice, service, loyalty etc are taken into consideration of course, but the market is still driven by supply and demand and measured by 1 main yardstick, and that is the price of the goods. The fringe benefits increase the threshold of consumers to tolerate a higher price, but to what extent can the price be raised...i guess it's up to the individual shopkeeper to gauge and react accordingly.

Why blame the consumers? Their conduct is predictable and the same worldwide (i'm talking about the consumers en mass here, not the loyalists who have been more vocal on this thread) and in every single market. React accordingly and we won't see so many LFS fall by the roadside

P.S. I'm talking more about the common fish market here. Exotic fish like apistos, arowanas, plecos etc fall into a separate market altogether

P.P.S. To preempt: No valice, not everyone has to follow this business model. Everyone is free to choose how they want to operate their shop. i'm just offering my opinion on how i feel things should be done based on my prior knowledge, my observations and the previous opinions on this thread

[lorba]

One of the many reasons Eco Culture foil is because its opening hours are no longer appealing to people who has more spending power. It is only open on hours more suitable for students but not favourable to working adults. To make matter worse, Sunday not open. At night, it only operates till 9pm ? Sigh. I miss the days where I can visit Eco at 11pm after I settle my work in the office. And yes. I miss the Eminent days and Serangoon days..

Therefore, you must know your target market like choy and etc., who will spent $60-$80 for one tetra.

I think you need to give a man the life. Getting married...

[yorky]

Guys, maybe we should tone done all this talk for now.

While its constructive feedback one way or another, the folks at Eco Culture are ruing all their $ losses, opportunity costs and everything to do with winding up.
I am pretty sure its not a very enjoyable time for them right now.
Running a business isn't at all easy, I don't know how many of you guys are working folks.
It is profits that pays your monthly pay-check, not revenue.

To the guys at EcoCulture, all the very best.

[Wackytpt]

No one will be understand the heartache and problem that the guys at Eco felt.

None of you guys will understand the daily issues and problems that An owner of a LFS would faced.

It is not easy to do a LFS business in Singapore.

There are valids in the suggestion you guys give, but is it visiable to follow it?
Unless you have been in this line, you won't understand the issues they faced.

All the suggestion can be execute if it is in an ideal setting.

I think we should end this discussion. Let wish the guys at Eco all the best.

[ranmasatome]

post 61 to 63...
simply wonderful...i support...so no need to type anymore for me.

All the best Azmi.

[blackBRUSHalgae]

hahahhaa we are only like less than 1% of the entire Singapore population? And out of this "less than 1%" who would actually make a transaction? LoL if every business targets only 1% of the entire population, they profit margin better have to be like 1000% in order to survive

[ecoculturesg]

hahahhaa we are only like less than 1% of the entire Singapore population? And out of this "less than 1%" who would actually make a transaction? LoL if every business targets only 1% of the entire population, they profit margin better have to be like 1000% in order to survive

Ha ha.. i wish..

Well guys.. been busy lately m.i.a for a while. Busy with projects and maintenance for Green Chapter and clearing of the the shop to make way for the new owners. Oh yes, we are ceasing down the retail operations for Eco Culture.. hopefully in the near future we will be back probably with new strategies or perhaps selling Luo Han if the craze comes back! haha.. Meanwhile if there is a need to find me i am still in the scene, but concentrating more with Green Chapter at the moment. Drop me a call or mail me through Eco or Green Chapter website or just pm me.

Appreciation and thanks to all fellow friends for support all these years. It seems that my passion itself is not enough to sustain the retail business... Have been doing that for quite a while when i finally decided to put it to a stop. Money makes the LFS go round! haha.. Anyway thanks again guys!!