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Thread: Endler - Just a thought

  1. #1
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    Endler - Just a thought

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    I had already purchased a kind of Endler fish named "Tiger peacock tail". I think it is a hybrid if I am not wrong. Got it few weeks ago and they are doing fine. This fish look pretty attractive and I always wanted to get more.

    Yesterday, I brought my sons to a LFS and saw some others type of Endlers. My sons love them so much as they are of different colours and wanted to buy them home. Initially, I thought of getting them as I like one of the kind too. However, in the end, I struggle for about an hour at the fish shop and did not buy anything. The reason is simple, I still do not want to "mix them". I know these Endler could cross breed rather easily. In order to keep the "natural" wild breed, I hesitated and refuse to buy them. Of course, my sons were very disappointed. But, I rather keep it that way, not to create another hybrid type of endler. Am I "conservative"?

    Sometime, we as human also mix in a way or another. Some people married to a person of different race and producing children of great beauty. Example like a chinese and a "Ang Mo" and produce a beautiful child. So, if my child wanted to marry to an "Ang Mo", would I accept it? If yes, is'nt it should apply the same to Endler? If no, then it should not apply to Endler too? Humm...Just a thought.....

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    My personal thought is that fishes cross breed all the while in their natural hitbitat... we/they can't control it and it is all in God's hand for creating beautiful things... this is also maybe why new breed of fishes are found in the wild.

    What you are trying to do isn't wrong as well... or else your tank will end up with funny looking fishes...

    No comments on human cross breed (not my cup of tea)
    ~| MakE ThE BesT oF EverythinG ThaT LifE BringS TheiR WaY! |~

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    Just highlight that the comments are only on Endler and not on human.

    Anyway, I think fishes of the "same" family cross breed in nature if I am not wrong. Of course, as long as the have the chance to meet and they are "willing" in that sense; it should be cross breed naturally.

    BTW, anyone keep more than one type of endlers in the same tank?
    For now, I just keep one type. Maybe in future if I wanted to keep more than one type, maybe will just keep the male to prevent cross breed?

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    you have to understand the concept of species, strains/variety, and hybrids. Species is a conceptual construct which attempts to parallel what we is in nature, i.e. a naturally occuring collection of organism that interbreeds naturally, and produces via offsprings just like their parents.

    a strain or variety is simply a subset of a "species" which has been either naturally or artificially selected for certain traits. genetically speaking they are the same as the "normal" specimens. you obtain strains or variety by repeatedly breeding parents from the same species that have the desired traits e.g. a certain colour.

    now hybrids are a completely different thing. they are crossing, sometimes natural but mostly artificial, of parents each from a different species. a prime example is a mule, crossed with a male donkey wth a female horse. just how bad this idea is? you can tell its a bad idea when the mules are usually sterile. read about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule

    what is happening with Endler's as I understand it, is that people has been crossing them with guppies. they are closely related but as far as we understand it (remember Nature has her own ways and don't always subscribe to our simple attempt to classify and categorise) they are different species.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona crumenatum Galleria Botanica

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    as far as human is concerned, and strictly leaving religious precepts at the door, we are all one single species as we so understand. so mixing races are not hybrids.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona crumenatum Galleria Botanica

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    Thanks hwchoy, for the enlightenment. So if cross breed between the same species like between the endlers should be OK?

    I also dislike the idea of cross breed endler and guppies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnA View Post
    So if cross breed between the same species like between the endlers should be OK?
    Not sure what you meant by that but you may be confusing species with strains/variants. They are the same species, so there is no crossing happening, just that you are mixing the strains/variants.

    Endlers are the same species, scientifically called Poecilia wingei, but they have been line bred to produce different strains/variants, e.g. "top yellow sword", "center peacock", "double red stripe".

    It is said that P. wingei has been crossed not just with guppies, but with mollies, platies, goodeids, limias and other livebearers as well. Now these are called hybrids.

    Personally, I don't like these hybrids, and wished that those selling the hybrids would label them as such, so that the buyer is aware of what is being purchased.
    Last edited by Quixotic; 16th Oct 2007 at 09:40. Reason: Spelling

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    Thanks Quixotic for the enlightenment and sorry for the confusion. I think I mix up with the terms. Now I understand the terms like crossing, hybrid better. Ok, for me, what I mean is mixing the endler to create different strains/variants. Not crossing or hybrid. Thanks.

    The fish shop owner claimed that his endler are from the wild. But, I think the one I had purchased fews weeks ago; which they named in chinese "Tiger Peacocktail" may not be from the wild. It should be from mixing strains/variants.

    Guess will drop by the shop again soon to get some different strains/variants of endler for my sons, they will be overjoy.
    Last edited by Quixotic; 16th Oct 2007 at 09:50. Reason: Remove immediate quote

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    Yes, you can create different strains/variants of Endlers, but need lots of tanks to get the traits that you want and for them to breed true. The methods are the same as creating guppy strains.

    I think anything that has tiger-like stripes are very likely hybrids. Their patterns are totally unlike Endlers and colours are different too.

    Here are some of the hybrids on the market, check the "exotic hybrid endlers".
    http://swampriveraquatics.com

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    From the web link, notice that mine is the no. 24)TIGER HYBRID under the "exotic hybrid endlers" section. Great, at least my endler is confirm a mix strains/variants. Notice they use the word "HYBRID"...hummm...interesting.

    Anyway, thanks for the web link.

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    most likely it means your fish is mixed with guppies.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona crumenatum Galleria Botanica

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    Yes, agree, it should have been mixed with guppy.

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    One pair of my endler that i bought is that very same one as that "Tiger Hybrid". It is notieably much larger than the smaller sized endler. Its still a pretty fish though and worth it.

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