Stem Plants not doing well

[aquarius]

I noticed that my stem plants don't seem to grow well in my Low Tech tank.
1) Rotala macrandra (rose looking type)
the plant just didn't grow, with the leaves turning pale red and after abt one mth plus later when i took it out, i noticed that there isn't any roots at the base.

2) Ludwigia brevipes
died slowly with it's leaves coming off slowly and no formation of roots at the base.

3) Hygrophila polysperma
the top or mature leaves becomes pale and fall off. The bottom section near the base of the plant or near the substrate grows alot of side-shoots from the main plant and they don't grow tall. Also new leaves that grow doesn't mature, they stay in a moderate size and the distance between leaves is very short. When i finally took them out, i noticed there were healthy roots on all of them

4) Ludwigia ovalis or palustris
grows very slowly and the distance between leaves is also very short. No dead leaves observed 3weeks after planting

Hope the experts here can help on why these 3 stem plants is not doing well.

Tank : 3ft x 1.5 x 1.5
Lights : 2 x 39w T5
Lighting Duration : 10hrs
Kh : 3dkh
CO2 : Nil
Substrate : Flourite (no base fert was used)

Fert : Seachem Flourish - 1ml
KNO3 - 2.9ppm
PO4 - 0.34ppm

Fertilize once a week, on the 4th week no ferts added

[charleston]

Hi, you many like to reduce the light duration. 6 to 8hr is the max for plants. Also temperate must be 27c or below.

[charleston]

do you have hair algae or algae spots on the tank? if yes, your temperature is too high and lighting is too long.

[charleston]

do you have hair algae or algae spots on the tank? if yes, your temperature is too high and lighting is too long.CO2 is prefered but if you have enough fishes they will do the job.

[aquarius]

Hi charleston! My water temp is 27c with fan on 24/7. I only have very little algae which is on the glass thatz all... due to over feeding and not enough fast growing plants. My problem is with stem plants not growing well not algae problems.

[Shadow]

I'm more worry on the light rather than the temperature. Not all plants can live in low light.

[Aquaculture]

Lighting seems to be enough based on a height or 1.5ft and usage of T5... it should be good. Your temperature seems alright too.

My guess is your fert regime lacks of trace. If I remember correctly, trace is needed for stem plants along with the other fert elements.

[marle]

the plants you mentioned might need c02 injection.

[Quixotic]

Since it is a low tech tank, without CO2, it can be difficult to grow some of the more demanding plants. I wouldn't consider these stem plants to be easy (except for H. polysperma). Remember, without CO2, plants would be growing many many many times slower.

[aquarius]

Lighting seems to be enough based on a height or 1.5ft and usage of T5... it should be good. Your temperature seems alright too.

My guess is your fert regime lacks of trace. If I remember correctly, trace is needed for stem plants along with the other fert elements.

I thought Seachem Flourish is trace cos it contains other micro nutrients in it or must i buy the Flourish Trace?

[aquarius]

My friend keeps stem plants including red stem plants in a non CO2 tank and they thrive.
These are what he did....

Trial 1
Tank : 2ft
Lighting : 1 x 36w PL
Substrate : flourite (without base fert)
Ferts : JBL liquid
Conclusion : stem plants did not grow well and died. There was also no root formation at the base of the plant

Trial 2
Tank : 2ft
Lighting : 1 x 36w PL
Substrate : ADA (without base fert)
Ferts : JBL liquid
Conclusion : stem plants did ok (growing) without any leaves dying. He grew quite a no. of stem plants and non died.
When he inserted monster root, they did even better.

Trial 3
Tank : 2ft
Lighting : 1 x 36w PL
Substrate : garden soil below with lapis sand as the top layer (without base fert)
Ferts : Seachem flourish 1ml, seachem potassium 1ml and Seachem iron 1ml every 2wks

He grew Rotala Rotundifolia, Rotala macrandra (rose looking type - red) just to name two types and they grew very well with not much dead leaves at the bottom part of the stem plant. Healthy and lush growth after abt 2mths plus to 3mths. He used soil to a 1.5ft tank and they also thrived. At first i thought he was bragging but seeing is believing.

I'm wondering is it my flourish substrate thats the problem cos i dosed NPK and micros while he didn't really dose macros and they are growing very well??

[cwtan12]

Valice,

Looks like the cheapest option is the best. Just wondering what type of gardent soil did he use? What colour is the soil?

[aquarius]

One type is abit reddish in colour and later he changed and used another which i'm not sure what type. But he says that the reddish one is much better compared to the other garden soil.

[Shadow]

He grew Rotala Rotundifolia, Rotala macrandra (rose looking type - red) just to name two types and they grew very well with not much dead leaves at the bottom part of the stem plant. Healthy and lush growth after abt 2mths plus to 3mths. He used soil to a 1.5ft tank and they also thrived. At first i thought he was bragging but seeing is believing.

I'm wondering is it my flourish substrate thats the problem cos i dosed NPK and micros while he didn't really dose macros and they are growing very well??

The plants your friend have is different plants than yours. Does he have same plants as yours? or you might want to try Rotala Rotundifolia and Rotala macrandra. Different plants have different light requirement.

By the way based on 2x1x1ft, your friend have 2.4 W/G where as yours is 1.5 W/G

[Quixotic]

I don't think anybody said that you cannot absolutely grow red stem plants in a non CO2 enriched tanks. You can, but it can be difficult as they are not easy plants to start with.

Increasing your lighting may actually help. This article and image from Tropica may be of interest...
http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?t...aristic&id=142

[Shadow]

The picture alone might be hard to understand, click the link and go to part 4

[aquarius]

The plants your friend have is different plants than yours. Does he have same plants as yours? or you might want to try Rotala Rotundifolia and Rotala macrandra. Different plants have different light requirement.

By the way based on 2x1x1ft, your friend have 2.4 W/G where as yours is 1.5 W/G

Thanks for pointing out the difference in W/G. He also has rotala macrandra (rose looking type) which in my case died.

Most plants can take nutrients from the leaves but will do so from their roots first (correct me if i'm wrong). For stems plant i thought they'll absorb nutrients more from the leaves via the water colloum than roots, after all they normally come without roots on them and in high-tech tanks you can see lots of roots growing from the nodes area (i'm refering to roots growing from the stems above the substrate).

Since i'm also dosing the macros and micros weekly why is it that there isn't any roots growing even after 1mth plus to 2mths in the tank? Does the substrate make so much of a difference for stem plants in Non-C02 setups?

[PeterGwee]

Are you doing water changes?

Regards,
Peter Gwee

[valice]

When you buy the plants, they don't come with roots because they are snipped from the parent plant and sell. After planting in, then the roots starts to grow ar...

As for the roots in the node area, the way the plant subsequently grow after the roots appear, then it becomes clear that substrate is important. Taking R.rotundifolia as an example, the plant will curve downwards in search for the substrate when the roots appear.

If the leaves are better at taking nutrients, then what's the use for roots?! Plants can't possibly evolve over million of years to have roots to then use leaves as the main source of nutrient intake right? Most of the plants we use in the aquarium are actually marsh plants. Meaning, they can be grow in both emersed and submersed conditions. When in emersed form, roots are their only way to take in nutrients. So again, I find it difficult to accept now that leaves are used for nutrient uptake.

[aquarius]

Hi Peter! I do water top-ups with the very occassional 10% water change and it's been like that for abt 9mths already.

Hi Valice! The reason why i have this understanding was because a long time back i read at this forum that it's not very impt to have good base fert or even base fert or was it don't really need to insert root taps after the base ferts are depleted, cos as long as you provide good fertilization in the water column it's sufficient enough cos the plants will then take in ferts through the leaves and relying less on their roots for nutrients and that is good enough for the plants' needs - i summize from that tread that this was for most plants minus those nutrient hungry plants.

My reasoning for stem plants is because they are snipped from the parent plant, since they have no roots, they have to take in nutrients from their leaves first. Then they start growing roots at the nodes to first help them to anchor themselves into the substrate then let them have a "better" chance of survival cos they will then have the option of nutrient absorbtion either through the roots, leaves or both.

I'm not saying that roots are not impt at all (by the way i also mentioned that most plants will take up nutrients from the roots first). Since i'm using flourite and don't have any base fert, my STEM PLANTS will probably have no choice but to absorb nutrients through their leaves instead and relying less on their roots even if they do grow in the substrate. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to the be case for me as my stem plants are either not growing well or dying.