Substrate and habitat query from Apistogramma Newbie

[monk2k]

Hi to all helpful bros, I have been reading all the apisto related threads, but there is very little which compare the usage of GEX soil and ADA soil. I am just wondering, can I use GEX soil to achieve the same PH levels as ADA? Are there any websites where I can see some comparisons at?

2nd question: I have a 2 feet tank to setup for apistos, just wondering, are they like tanga shellies whereby we have to put many shells in, and let them choose by themselves, or can we just put 1 or 2 caves, and "force" them to use it for breeding?

Note: My aim is not exactly to breed these lovely fishes for sale but it would be nice if my new fishes could breed, and I can have the experience of raising a few brood of fries. Thus, I would want as much information for the best of health for mine cichlids.

Jason

[illumnae]

Hi Jason, welcome to the hobby! This is the start of a roller coaster ride for you as you dive deeper and deeper into apisto keeping

Just a quick answer to your questions based on my own experience. Generally speaking, ADA Africana soil would be the de facto soil of choice for apistos due to its unique property of lowering and maintaining PH at approximately 5.1. Gex soil is unable to do this, and planted tanks is where this soil shines. If you are intending for a scaped planted tank to keep your apistos in as opposed to a pure breeding tank, then go for Gex (as a number of forummers would know by now, i'm a huge advocate of Gex over ADA for planted tanks) - your apistos will still do well in such a tank, but of course it's not ideal due to such a setup not mimicking their natural habitat. However, if you intend to make your tank a mostly bare breeding tank, then go for ADA Africana. I've used ADA Africana thus far for all my apisto setups and have experienced very good results on all my apistos. For my next setup which i'm in the midst of setting up, i am using Gex soil as i am venturing into a scaped planted setup for apistos instead.

As for your caves, you don't have to litter your tank with caves for the apisto. The female apisto, when she wants to breed, will pick the best spot she can find in whatever environment she's in. I've seen/heard of apistos breed in flowerpots, under an internal filter, at the bottom of a breeder box, on the leaves of java ferns, under "natural" caves in driftwood, on tank glass...etc... i'm sure you get the gist =)

[monk2k]

Thanks to bro illuminae for your replies, it was rather helpful. But this newbie have more questions and queries.

Based on what you have said, if I do not intend to plant anything into the substrate, but rather mostly my plants will be tied to driftwoods and rocks, I intend to only keep 3 kinds of plants, Java Ferns, Java Moss and also Nanas. Thus the way I see it, all the plants would be tied to the driftwood, so it would thus be better for me to use ADA soil to mimic their natural habitat then?

(PS: Bro can pm me telling me where to get it, and whats the pricing like, thanks a lot.)

Secondly, can I use those plastic flowerpots from NTUC gardening section? Would it be detrimental to the health of the fishes?

Thirdly. I intend to keep Tiger Endlers as dither fishes, is it advisable?

[illumnae]

I would indeed recommend ADA Africana for your setup. another thing to note that i forgot to mention earlier is the colour of the soil. Gex/ADA Amazonia is black while Africana is a lighter brown. it affects a little the viewing pleasure as a black background/substrate tends to bring out the fish's colour a little better. if this isn't a major issue, then go with ADA Africana.

I personally use clay instead of plastic flowerpots, as i think the rough surface of the clay is preferable for the fish. however, i'm sure plastic flowerpots will do fine. for a more natural look, perhaps you could consider using driftwood that is curved and forms natural caves. the type i use lies flat on the substrate (not branchy) and has caves on its underside. my apistos have spawned in such caves many times. you can tie your ferns/moss/nana on it too. what i did was to tie spiky moss all over it, so when the spiky moss grew out, it partially covered the caves and made the female more comfortable in guarding her brood.

Finally, for dither fishes, i think Endlers should be fine. some other forummers use Endlers as dithers and i don't think there are bad reviews.

[monk2k]

I am also wondering, would using GEX soil or other soil then Africana reduce the want and the will to spawn of these fishes?

[illumnae]

You can always lower the ph by other means such as peat or ketapang leaves. However, such methods usually tint the water yellow/brown. It's not that the want and will of apistos are reduced by the use of certain soils, but certain water parameters will make the fish feel more at home and thus be more in the mood to breed. For example, would you be in the mood for some action in a nice big bed? How about in a garbage dump (extreme example)? Same goes for the fish.

If you are able to replicate the environment by other means, your fish will still be comfortable. Use of Africana is just a convenient means to an end. Other factors such as planting, colour, cost or convenience etcetc come into play and at the end of the day it's how you choose to balance all the factors.

by the way, what apistos do you intend to keep? some of the easier to keep species such as A. cacatuoides and A. agassizii can adapt and spawn in neutral or even slightly alkaline waters. it's the more delicate species that require the low ph to thrive and/or spawn.

[monk2k]

I would be keeping A. agassizii, thus this would mean that, a GEX setup should be ok right, because I am rather clueless where to get ADA soil in the West area. I am also worried during water change, my water would be rather cloudy, can any bros experienced with both GEX and ADA shed some light on this? I have read also that the Red Pack GEX does lower the PH, but is it like ADA, where the PH will be stabilised at the new low level, or will the PH fluctuate?

[illumnae]

A. agassizii should be fine with near neutral levels. You could lower your ph slightly into the 6s by putting some peat into your filter. I have a small amount of peat in my planted nano wild betta tank with Gex soil (green packaging) and it doesn't tint the water. I'm intending to do the same with my next apisto tank (also A. agassizii coincidentally) and i don't foresee problems.

As for ADA soil in the west area, C328 does carry Amazonia and sometimes Africana as well. You will be fine with Gex. the red packaging, if i'm not mistaken, lowers the ph and stabilizes it at low-mid 6s. ADA Africana will not cloud the water much when disturbed...that honour is reserved for ADA Amazonia, though i know some ADA users who claim that even Amazonia doesn't cloud But as long as you change your water carefully and don't disturb the substrate, you should be fine with whatever soil you choose to use.

[monk2k]

Decided to try out GEX for convenience reasons, got my soil from a very nice LFS owner at Choa Chu Kang. This is my experience with GEX soil. Originally I had the bare tank just running with water and the cannister with nothing in it, as I do not have spare pails to store all the water should I drain my tank out, I decided to just pour the soil into the water straight. The water turned brownish black straight away, and there was some detritus on the top of the tank. I am currently using a 1000L/hour cannister, and just within 3minutes, I could see the greenish piping through the murky water, and 1 hour later, the water was already only a tinge of light brown. Within 4 hours, the water has cleared up considerably, and it was about 90% clear already, I then lessen the flow of my output rainbar, to prevent the water current from stirring up the water again. This is my first time using substrate other then lapis sand or coral sand, and I must say, I am extremely pleased with the result, and encourage bros here to use it.

I decided to list down some of my reasons for choosing GEX
1) I actually bought a 2kg Green Pack earlier, and decided to change with the LFS owner for a 8kg Red Pack. (Haha)
2) There was a significant price disparity between GEX and ADA, which placed ADA out of my budget considerably.
3) I had a good discussion with the LFS owner, and he says that GEX and ADA soil behaves in the same manner, and after bro illuminae has said that certain apistoes like a. agazzi are less picky about their water, that convinced me that I should give GEX a try.

Hope my experience with RED GEX soil will help other bros who are just as undecided whether to give this new product a shot.

I still have a few questions (haha, newbie sorry)

1) What are the apparatus that can be used to test PH levels? I only know some like PH pen, but the pen seems to be rather expensive, just wondering are there any other options.

2) Is it possible to mix ADA soil (Africanna) with GEX, like laying a layer of GEX at the bottom, then ADA, then GEX soil?

3) Does ADA sell their soil in smaller packs other then their 9litre packaging?

Thanks in advance to all bros that have been helping me. Thank You

Jason

[illumnae]

Another satisfied Gex user i've always been a proponent that Gex is better than ADA for various reasons, some of which you've already highlighted

1) there are ph test kits available for a lower cost, but be warned that they are much less accurate than a ph pen. a 2nd hand ph pen usually costs about 2-3x the cost of 1 kit and a 1st hand ph pen can be about 4x the cost of 1 kit...i'd say the ph pen is a good investment if you're into the hobby long term

2) it's possible, but why would you want to do it?

3) ADA sells 3 litre packaging as well, but unless prices have changed recently, a 3 litre pack costs more than half the price of a 9 litre pack - not worth it at all. If you don't mind repackaged soil, NA sells 4.5 litre bags that they pack themselves from new bags at half the price of a 9 litre pack