Apistogramma ID

[wiki]

This beautiful specimen from Japanese hobbyist. What specimen is it? I guess it could be a Apistogramma sp. 'Jurua Emerald'. What about you guys?

[koel9]

Could be a juruensis or leulingi. Generally the lateral band on a jurua stop short before the caudal spot.

The one in the picture looks like it's stretch all the way; quite likely a leulingi.

cheers

[wiki]

Thanks for your reply Koel9. The recorded images I've seen so far for Ap. leulingi & Ap. juruensis doesn't seem to have such a strong hint of blue coloring.

I've kept both Ap. juruensis 'Rio Jurua' and Ap. leulingi before, their coloring are quite distinct in fact from the specimen we are discussing. Most Ap. juruensis & Ap. leulingi recorded have yellow to pale orange coloring on their face and abdomen. In addition, Ap. leulingi are almost certain to have a dark patch on the top of their tail near the caudal area. Abdomen streaks on Ap. juruensis are also present.

This specimen in question here doesn't have the mentioned features of both Ap. juruensis & Ap. leulingi. Initially, I was thinking it might possibly be Ap. noberti because of its features but on closer inspection, this specimen has a lyretail instead. Hence, this initial thought of mine was not justified.

Do correct me if I am wrong =)

[genes]

Why not ask the japanese where you got this picture from? Alternatively, you could ask Mike Wise. I am sure he'll be happy to help.

[wiki]

Unfortunately, its a chicken and duck talk situation. He only replied it is Apistogrmma sp. , with great difficulty in understanding me. No locality, no nothing else. So I thought I would try my luck and post since many veterans are here.

[koel9]

Hi, my intention is to share and not to correct anyone.

Juruensis are available in yellow and blue morph, wherelse leulingi are metallic blue or greyish blue.

There may be markings on upper portion of caudal in leulingi that are black, red/orange (similar to caca) or not at all.

Of juruensis, there tend to have a black marking below the mouth, shaped like a inverted W; that's why the name 'black-chin' in the trade.

There should be some red in the iris of the leulingi (could'nt see in the photo), that is absent in similar species of the caca complex.

Hope these bits of information are useful.

cheers

[genes]

Hi koel9
Very informative! Welcome to the forum. And yes, we are all here to share information and knowledge.

Its quite difficult to tell.

Firstly, the lateral band that continues all the way to the caudal spot seems to signify that he's an Ap. luelingi.

However, the lack of the spots on the caudal fin and the non serrated dorsal fin seems to be telling that he's an Ap. juruensis.

He's a hybrid!!!

[koel9]

Hi Eugene, thanks for the welcome.

[wiki]

Hi, my intention is to share and not to correct anyone.

Juruensis are available in yellow and blue morph, wherelse leulingi are metallic blue or greyish blue.

There may be markings on upper portion of caudal in leulingi that are black, red/orange (similar to caca) or not at all.

Of juruensis, there tend to have a black marking below the mouth, shaped like a inverted W; that's why the name 'black-chin' in the trade.

There should be some red in the iris of the leulingi (could'nt see in the photo), that is absent in similar species of the caca complex.

Hope these bits of information are useful.

cheers

Hi koel9, thanks for the information. I've gotten some photos of wild collected Ap. luelingi from Lance Peck. I agree with you on the red iris for this specimen but as I've mentioned in my earlier post, unfortunately the specimen in question does not seem to share this feature.

As for the Ap. juruensis, there isn't a hint of the signature 'W' black chin mark on this specimen either. My observation of all recorded Ap. juruensis collected so far also does not exhibit the reddish orangy tinge from the third dorsal spine onwards. Most either display a tinge of black on the 1st two or three dorsal spine, or the entire row of dorsal spines are maroon red with blue.

I'm beginning to think perhaps this could be a wild Ap. cacatuoides color morph from Peru....maybe? What about you koel9?

[koel9]

Yes you are right, it could be

[wiki]

Thanks for your reply koel9. It's a real pleasure to hear your views because from the information you've provided us, I am sure you have vast knowledge and specialises in this hobby.

[Cacatuoides]

It looks like Ap. Juruaemerald to me.....similar to the one on
http://www.rva.ne.jp/apisto/ap_jurua_wil.htm

[koel9]

Hi wiki, I used to have a community tank of apistos; so am familiar with some of the species.

Not exactly 'vast knowledge' I'm afraid .

[wiki]

Hi koel9, you are too modest.

Hi cacatuoides, that was my initial guess too but after our discussion here, it seems Ap. sp. 'Jurua Emerald' does not fit the bill. Ap. sp. 'Jurua Emerald' has a 'trademark' red tinge on the top of its tail. The specimen in question does not have this feature.
Thank you for your views.