Tiger Barb with dropsy

[zoli]

Hi guys,

I got a Tiger Barb that has dropsy... I have hunch that it may not be bacterial infection, and that is more likely a digestive problem. The fish has been showing this condition for a week now, it has been isolated in a hospital tank, it's bloated and has the pinecone appearance. I have been using sera omnipur for treatment but I don't see much of an improvement. I think the swelling has reduced a little but the scales are still sticking out. The fish will not eat. What do you guys think, can the fish be saved? The scales are sticking out but, not as much as I have seen in many dropsy pictures and bloated appearance has reduced a little over the period of this week, however this may be caused by the fact that the fish is not eating. The barb is active but I can tell it's not feeling well at all, it has a kind of restless attitude. I can also see a little reddish hue (like blood) on the scales on each side of the belly. The bloody scale appearance seemed to get worse when, not knowingly, I used salt it his treatment. I removed the salt, and then the blood went away, but not all the way, it's still there a little. Just a hue really.

[Quixotic]

The scales are sticking out but, not as much as I have seen in many dropsy pictures and bloated appearance has reduced a little over the period of this week, however this may be caused by the fact that the fish is not eating.

Something I have mentioned previously about dropsy, http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...85&postcount=8

I don't think that the reduced bloated appearance is caused by the fact it is not eating. The bloat appearance is caused by a concentration of fluid in the body tissues and cavities.

With the pine-cone appearance, treatment can be very very difficult as by this time, it is already in the later stages, but it is not incurable. Do read the Wikipedia link that was provided in the link above and there are some ideas on possible treatments, albeit a little brief.

[zoli]

Ok, I need new input, if possible. 2 days have passed and I continued my treatment with sera omnipur in the hospital tank. Condition of the tiger barb is mainly unchanged, still pinecone, still a little bloated. The funny thing is that in addition to this, the fish is developing fin rot on all his fins. I really don't know how can this happen, cuz I was treating the fish with a medicine that should treat also fin rot. What would you guys recommend now? What should I try?

[zoli]

Would Tetracycline work here?

[Quixotic]

No harm trying if this is what has ben suggested, but as mentioned, treatment will be very very difficult (it is not a typo error, note the double "very" emphasis), I will not place high hopes on a cure. Most aquarists reported failures rather than success.

[zoli]

Nobody really suggested anything, I'm just guessing. The general idea is that the fish will die. However I gotta do somehing cuz I really feel bad for this little fish. I will look tomorrow for other comercial fin rot medicine, but for now I'll just hit it with Tetracycline and maybe even combine it with eritromicine. Not sure about the dosage, it will be just guesswork.

[fish_person51423]

if you have a hunch, dont just ask us, go see a vet and get it looked at, if you tiger barb does have dropsy, you can buy medicine for it any wereyour fish probably will live, accualy, theres pretty much, not a doubt in my mind that it won't livehope it turns out well

[zoli]

I like your positive attitute Fish person, but have you seen the prognosis on dropsy.... it's not good. I'm also worried and puzzled by the fin rot combining with dropsy, I mean, how can fin rot apear during medicated treatment with 100% water changes? Ofc I will look for other medicine, but it's not easy to find effective fish medicine over here in Romania, there are only some sera and tetrafin products. Not very impressive. This is why I like antibiotics so much, u can find those in any pharmacy.

[Johnc]

If your fish is still eating while afflicted with dropsy, then chances are it is curable. I've had good success with Metronidazole. But then I don't have fishes getting dropsy all that often. The fin rot is probably due to the 100% water change.. unless you are using aged-water.

/John

[zoli]

Unfortunatly the fish is not eating. I did the 100% water changes with conditioned water, kept for about 5 hours before use. Metronidazol sounds good, what dosage would you recommend?

[Johnc]

Hmm... if it is not eating, the prognosis is not good, though the fact that it is still alive after so many days is a good sign. I would try 5-10 mg per litre pre-dissolved in lukewarm water.

[zoli]

ok tnx,

at this point I'm already past 24 hours of Tetracycline combined with Eritromicine treatment. There may be a little improvement, but I cannot be sure, maybe it's just wishfull thinking, but it kinda looks like the bloating has reduced further and also the pinecone look seems to be less noticeable, it is still very much there, but maybe just a little less. So... I'm not sure what to do now.... should I just put the metronidazol into the mix and do treatment with 3 antibiotics at the same time? I'm kinda reluctant to discontinue the Tetracycline/Eritromicine. And what do you think about the water changes, should I do the 100% changes? How often? I'm also getting very worried about the fin rot, it looks awful!

[zoli]

The fish died....
Thank you for the replies. I think the antibiotics were effective, but it was just too late. Maybe if I would have started the treatment with them, instead of the omnipur the outcome would've been different. My only confort now, is that I know that doctors must feel like this all the time .

[celticfish]

late reply...
i agree with quixotic that though curable, it is very difficult.
personally, i consider whatever fish i have with the condition ---> dead.
the time i have spent and medication just don't get the results.
so my "standard" prodecure is to euthanize the fish.
sound harsh but i have yet to cure a fish from this condition...
dropsy, imho, is one of the "deadliest" disease a fish can get.

[zoli]

I cannot euthanize anything cuz of my religious belief. So I can only attempt treatment. In this case there wasn't much of a chance to begin with.

[fish_person51423]

sorry man, i guess i was wronghope this doesn't happen again

[XnSdVd]

But now we've all learned from that little fish. Zoli, perhaps you could post your treatment method? I have several rather rare species of barb myself that i'd hate to lose.

[zoli]

The treatment is simple really, I had the fish in 15 litres of water in a hospital tank. I used 200mg of Tetracycline and 100mg of Eritromicine in those 15 litres of water. Did 100% water change after 2 days (maybe the 100% was not such a great idea, less could be better), using same amounts of the 2 antibiotics, after the water change. The general strategy here would be something like this: we know dropsy is usually a symptom of a massive internal bacterial infection, so you kinda want to hit the fish with heavy antibiotics a.s.a.p. There is only one problem... you can never be sure what kind of bacteria is causing this. This is the reason why I used 2 antibiotics at the same time, to have a broader spectrum. If I were to face the disease again I would use 3 antibiotics now by puting 100 mg of metronidazol into the mix. Again, the idea is to have a bigger spread. From my experience I see that antibiotics don't seem very harmful to fish. Getting results with this methot depends on 2 things. 1) did the harmful bacteria fall into the spectrum of the antibiotics used? and 2) did you start medicating the fish soon enough. In my case it would seem that the Tetracycline / Eritromicine combo nailed the bacteria but I lost pretious time with the sera omnipur attempt. When the fish died the swelling was almost gone and there was no more pinecone look, however the fish still died. Was it internal organ failure due to damage? I guess.

[XnSdVd]

Most helpful zoli =) Now i just have to figure out where in singapore i can get those antibiotics...

[zoli]

You can find these antibiotics in any pharmacy, they are for human use and are not veterinary things.