Advice on Tank Setup for Discus needed

[chin]

Hi all,

I am looking towards keeping discus in a custom-made tank measuring 27.5" tall x 25" wide x 22" deep.

Through some research, I've came to know that the water should have a PH of about 6-6.5 and the water temperature should be bent slightly towards the warm side (27-29 degrees).

My concept of the set up consists of the following:

- Lapis Sand (as substrate)
- Bog Wood (as deco)
- Drift Wood (as deco)
- Ehiem Cannister Filter (202
- Overhead Light (undecided on what kind)

1. I may add some tetra (about 10) to the tank in the near future. Can discus and tetra live as a communal?

2. I would like to have clear water instead of black. Is it possible?

3. I've also heard that both Bog Wood and Drift Wood will bring the PH to about 6.5, thus the deicision to have them
in the tank. Do the both of them really bring the PH down to 6.5? And if so, do I need to "measure" the number of
both woods i have in the tank, in the sense that does an excess amount of Bog/Drift wood increase the PH to >6.5?

Due to financial constraint, I will not be able to afford ADA as substrate, though I am aware that it will bring the PH of the water down to 6.5.

4. I am trying to have a minimalistic feel to the tank and the only plants that I may include would be the Java Fern and
maybe some floating plants. I will choose hardy plants as a I am not considering in including any CO2 for the setup.
Any more suggestion as to what other kinds of hardy plants (preferably tall ones) I can have, bearing in mind that I will not have a CO2?

Will really need all of your expert advice.. Can anyone furnish me with answers to my question please? Any feedback will be much appreciated...
Thanks a million!

[wiki]

I may add some tetra (about 10) to the tank in the near future. Can the discus and tetra live as a communal?
>> Yes thay can. If you're planning to keep adult sized discus, keep in mind not to throw in small sized tetras. They become snacks for your adult discus...especially when the lights are off.

I would like to have clear water instead of black. Is it possible?
>> SG's tap water is considered soft already. You could consider adding processed peat granules to your filter. Do change the peat granules once every 2-3 mths though because they lose their properties after that.

I've also heard that both Bog Wood and Drift Wood will bring the PH to about 6.5, thus the deicision to have them in the tank. Do the both of them really bring the PH down to 6.5? And if so, do I need to "measure" the number of both woods i have in the tank, in the sense that does an excess amount of Bog/Drift wood increase the PH to >6.5?
>> Wouldn't really count on it unless you have tons of it in your tank. Tannins from bog or drift woods form tannic acids in the water. If you wanna lower pH to 6.5, peat granules are more efficient.


I am trying to have a minimalistic feel to the tank and the only plants that I may include would be the Java Fern and maybe some floating plants. I will choose hardy plants as a I am not considering in including any CO2 for the setup. Any more suggestion as to what other kinds of hardy plants I can have?
>>Anubias would be a hardy alternative. You can tie them to bog woods.

[illumnae]

how many discus are you intending to keep in this tank? due to its relatively small size for a discus tank, you might find it a tight squeeze for even 5 adult discus, which should be the minimum number of discus kept together

[chin]

I would like to have clear water instead of black. Is it possible?
>> SG's tap water is considered soft already. You could consider adding processed peat granules to your filter. Do change the peat granules once every 2-3 mths though because they lose their properties after that.

I've also heard that both Bog Wood and Drift Wood will bring the PH to about 6.5, thus the deicision to have them in the tank. Do the both of them really bring the PH down to 6.5? And if so, do I need to "measure" the number of both woods i have in the tank, in the sense that does an excess amount of Bog/Drift wood increase the PH to >6.5?
>> Wouldn't really count on it unless you have tons of it in your tank. Tannins from bog or drift woods form tannic acids in the water. If you wanna lower pH to 6.5, peat granules are more efficient.

Thank you so much wiki, for your sound advice.

When you mentioned that SG's water is already soft, is it soft enough for discus to thrive?

Since tannins is present in bog/drift woods, how is it that I remove or at least minimize the tannic acids? I mean, apart from not having the woods at all.

Also, you mentioned that I should add peat granules to my filter. Will peat granules make my water black? As mentioned, I pretty much would like to have clear instead of black....

how many discus are you intending to keep in this tank? due to its relatively small size for a discus tank, you might find it a tight squeeze for even 5 adult discus, which should be the minimum number of discus kept together

illumnae: I intend to have 3 pairs in there. The interior of the tank is pretty bare so I reckoned it will be able house that much discus.

Do you know how am I able to differentiate between the sexes?

Anyway, the filter that I will be using is an Ehiem 2028 Cannister.

Is this filter in any way too powerful for my tank?

[wks]

Hi chin, when you use canister filter, you need to wash the filter more frequently. Since discus need high quality water with very low nitrate level, I used to wash my canister filter once a week. But I found moving the canister to my bathroom a hassle, I have since changed to a top filter and a sponge filter.

Remember to do gravel vacuuming when doing water changes because uneaten food and fish waste can cause the fish to fall sick.

Tannin from driftwood will not be a concern as you need to do water change frequently.

Try to use rainbar to spray water over the surface as discus need calmer water. Since you don't put aquatic plants into the tank, its good to have an airstone to aerate water.

Our water is soft enough for discus. I don't use any peat granules or black water. But you need to get a good water conditioner as discus are extremely sensitive to chlorine/ chloramine in water.

[godprint]

Hi chin, when you use canister filter, you need to wash the filter more frequently. Since discus need high quality water with very low nitrate level, I used to wash my canister filter once a week. But I found moving the canister to my bathroom a hassle, I have since changed to a top filter and a sponge filter.

when you say wash the filter,

which parts of the media do we wash? just the foam right??

[trident]

Chin,

1. I may add some tetra (about 10) to the tank in the near future. Can discus and tetra live as a communal?

Answer. The difference in size will make them look odd, anyway I have not heard of discus eating tetras before.

2. I would like to have clear water instead of black. Is it possible?

Answer. Of course you can have clear water, in fact most discus are kept in clear water, no need for additive, bogwood or drift wood.

3. I've also heard that both Bog Wood and Drift Wood will bring the PH to about 6.5, thus the deicision to have them
in the tank. Do the both of them really bring the PH down to 6.5? And if so, do I need to "measure" the number of
both woods i have in the tank, in the sense that does an excess amount of Bog/Drift wood increase the PH to >6.5?

Answer. Discus can thrive well in tap water, PH around 7. The reason for lower PH is when you want to breed them.

Due to financial constrain, I will not be able to afford ADA as substrate, though I am aware that it will bring the PH of the water down to 6.5.

Answer. Most discus are kept in bare tank with only a sponge filter.

4. I am trying to have a minimalistic feel to the tank and the only plants that I may include would be the Java Fern and
maybe some floating plants. I will choose hardy plants as a I am not considering in including any CO2 for the setup.
Any more suggestion as to what other kinds of hardy plants (preferably tall ones) I can have, bearing in mind that I will not have a CO2?

Answer. Substrate and plants are optional when keeping discus. It's purely a personal preference when you want to keep discus in a planted tank.

Here are some tips.
Discus like to have clean water, so, we discus keepers usually do water change very frequently, either once daily or every 2 days.
Part of the reason is their diet, we feed them beef heart and they foul up the water pretty fast. Overhead or canister filter trap leftover food and and cause the water to go bad.
Discus diet. Discus favorite food is beef heart and blood worm or bits.
Your tank is a bit small for 6 adult discus, you can still keep them but you have to be more hardworking and do more water change.

If you have anymore questions, shoot!

[chin]

wks: Thanks for your advice.

I actually intend to have some plants in the tank. Probably Java Fern
and if I could land my hands on some tall plants that does not require
any CO2 to sustain.

As for water, you mean I can just use aged water that comes from
the tap(in terms of PH) and there isn't a need for me to use and PH
up/PH down conditioners?? How long do you reckon that I need to
age the water for?

-

trident: Thanks alot for your time taken in answering my questions. Really
appreciated it.

-

I've read from some thread that was posted some time ago that a black coloured "Oyama" background will cause discus to be nervous. Though some of them managed to acclimate their discus to live in dark surroundings, one reported that the colouration of the discus changed to a darker hue. How true is it? And does it applies to all typs of discus?

If yes, will the lighting help if lets say I have it on a few hours in the day?
I'm asking as I intend to have a black background.

[wks]

when you say wash the filter,

which parts of the media do we wash? just the foam right??

I actually wash everything inside the canister from filter foam to ceramic rings. I change the filter floss everytime after washing the filter. As I have mentioned earlier, discus are very sensitive to higher nitrate level as compared to many other fish, it makes no sense to leave any trapped fish food and fish waste inside the canister. This will still give problem even if you change water regularly.

Basically the canister just acts as a mechanical filter. Biological filtration is not important because its end result is a high nitrate level (discus don't like it) if you don't change 100% water frequently.

wks: Thanks for your advice.

I actually intend to have some plants in the tank. Probably Java Fern
and if I could land my hands on some tall plants that does not require
any CO2 to sustain.

As for water, you mean I can just use aged water that comes from
the tap(in terms of PH) and there isn't a need for me to use and PH
up/PH down conditioners?? How long do you reckon that I need to
age the water for?

Hi chin, if you want to put in some java ferns, check and make sure no left over food is trapped between the plants or the driftwoods during water change. I once put in java fern without realising that discus don't pick off food trapped among the plants, overtime a lot of uneaten food accumulated in the tank. So despite changing water frequently, water quality turns bad quite fast and my discus fall sick rather quickly. Don't use rooted plants unless you are prepared to vacuum these places thoroughly.

I don't age my water at all. I use filtered water ( I installed a filter to remove chlorine/chloramine) fresh from the tap. Even if you don't own a water filter (this thing is not cheap, its meant for human consumption) just get a good water conditioner will help you to solve those nasty chemical problems. pH is also not an issue in my case because I'm not breeding discus. Trident (Richard) is an expert in breeding discus, please consult him.

Most importantly, only buy discus from lfs that use tap water to keep them. I know I may offend some people from the fish farms but my experience was that discus from fish farms can't survive long in my tank.

[chin]

Point taken wks, thanks alot...

Discus from farms can't survive for long? i wonder why... Lol...

[trident]

chin,
As for farm fish, because some of their fishes are imported, they might face problem because of the difference in water parameter and the local bugs which they are not used to yet. But if these fishes are properly quarantined and are acclimatised to local water they should be OK. The other important factor is, you must quarantine them properly at home before adding them to the community tank.

[chin]

chin,
As for farm fish, because some of their fishes are imported, they might face problem because of the difference in water parameter and the local bugs which they are not used to yet. But if these fishes are properly quarantined and are acclimatised to local water they should be OK. The other important factor is, you must quarantine them properly at home before adding them to the community tank.

Which means to say generally LFS's discus are locally bred and not imported?

Anyway, what are you pointers on the black Oyama paper? Cause I've read on your previous post in another thread about your experience..

Does a black Oyama paper really makes your discus become darker? Can they be acclimated to darker surroundings easily?

[trident]

chin,
Nobody knows where their (LFS, farm) fish comes from. Only they knows. Sometimes they will tell you (if you ask) sometimes they don't. But generally those on sale are already quarantined and acclimatised to local water. They also don't want customers buying their fish and dying on them due to their carelessness.
Dark background generally is not good for discus, cause the fish to turn dark. This case is true to most non-albino strain. Of course they can get used to the dark background but will take a while to adjust when you switch on the light.
Albino doesn't turn dark because they lack the dark pigment. But you still need a light to view them properly.

[chin]

Alright, thanks a million, trident. I've really gather alot of essential information to see me through my initial set up for a start..

I will of course pop questions if they do come by as I progress in my "project".

Thank you one and all for all your contributions, big or small..

[trident]

chin,
no problem. if you need further help just post here or can call me 94778307.
what breed do you plan to keep? where you buying them from?

[chin]

I've came to know of this guy by the name of Mr. Yeo who is selling. He said that he has LSS, Melon and Blue Satin.

Melon and Blue Satin I think I've came across before but I've not heard of an LSS though.. Any idea?

Or do you have any good places that I can get pretty discus?

[trident]

There isn't really that many discus shop left in Singapore.
Mr. Yeo is a home breeder?
LSS is leopard snake skin, a 14 bar spotted fish.
This was a popular strain the last few years.
Go look around first before deciding what to get, you only
got 1 tank, so make the best of it.

[chin]

Was told that Mr. Yeo sells his discus from home, so i reckoned that he should be a home breeder...

[chin]

What should I look out for when choosing discus? I mean any tell tale signs that the discus wasn't well taken off? How about the shape/size of the body?

[trident]

chin,
common traits to look out for, discus must be healthy looking, active and moving about. If it's dark and hiding in a corner, that's no good.
Shape must be round. Fins extended not clamped. Eyes must be bright and proportional to the body, if eyes is too big, don't but, it's most likely stunted.
Color must not be overly reddish (this is for red fish) when young.
Get them at size 2" and above. They will be more stable. Get them in group of at least 4 pcs (for young fish).