BBA on Hair Grass

[juggler]

Is it a common sight among Hair Grass keepers? How to get rid of it?
I tried to cut them away but it grew back. I suspect it is due to nutrient inbalance. The NO3 tested 10ppm, the PO4 is lower at 0.25 to 0.5ppm.

[juggler]

Is it a common sight among Hair Grass keepers? How to get rid of it?
I tried to cut them away but it grew back. I suspect it is due to nutrient inbalance. The NO3 tested 10ppm, the PO4 is lower at 0.25 to 0.5ppm.

[juggler]

Is it a common sight among Hair Grass keepers? How to get rid of it?
I tried to cut them away but it grew back. I suspect it is due to nutrient inbalance. The NO3 tested 10ppm, the PO4 is lower at 0.25 to 0.5ppm.

[juggler]

Is it a common sight among Hair Grass keepers? How to get rid of it?
I tried to cut them away but it grew back. I suspect it is due to nutrient inbalance. The NO3 tested 10ppm, the PO4 is lower at 0.25 to 0.5ppm.

[vinz]

KF -> APD BBA thread.

[wks]

Vincent, read the Tom Barr article posted by u. Got some questions here: Is pushing pH beyond 7 alone helps to control BBA? If so, does that mean BBA is a problem unique to acidic water only? How about lighting, isn't it a major factor too?

[kubrich]

just read the article posted by vinz too...i too am having a prob with bba and its been quite some time,currently my water ph was at 7 and kh was at 4 when diy co2 and lights was left on.called a lfs yesterday to ask how i can control,the guy told me turn off the co2 cos diy co2 composition is different or something and told me to turn off the light for 1 or 2 days...i currently have quite a number of malayan shrimp and 2 saes. but seems after turning off the light and co2 the algae seemed to spread more...really desperate now,i dun really wish to trim my xmas moss cos very heart pain,but is trimming the only way to control the problem now? i stoped dosing jbl ferropol liquid fert for sometime cos i was worried tt access to other nutrients would spur algal growth. read also tt bba occurs more when nitrates are used and the plant growth slows givin them more access to phosphates...it tt true? if so would increasing nitrates help and how do i go about doing tt? currently dun have test kits to test for nitrate nitrite levels cos kinda strapped on cash.[] []

[juggler]

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On 10/23/2002 1:44:12 PM

Vincent, read the Tom Barr article posted by u. Got some questions here: Is pushing pH beyond 7 alone helps to control BBA? If so, does that mean BBA is a problem unique to acidic water only? How about lighting, isn't it a major factor too?
----------------

My 4ft tank has pH of about 7.2 usually. During the initial setup 2 years ago, there was occurence of BBA. But since then, no more. So I can't say BBA is unique to acidic water.

Funny thing is the BBA occurs in more abundance among the Hair Grass in my 2.5ft tank. In a separate 2ft tank with full Hair Grass, the BBA is very minute in quantity. Parameters are:

2.5ft: 10ppm NO3, 0.25ppm PO4
2 ft: 10~20ppm NO3, 1.0ppm PO4

Both are neutral to slight acidic tanks. kH should be about 2 or 3. The BBA started to appear ever since I started feeding BW. However, the 2.5ft one has more BBA.

[kubrich]

interestingly enough,i think my bba also started to bloom more after feeding frozen bw to my fishies...do you think tt could be a cause?[]

[vinz]

Well, did some more poking around in APD. Tom Barr keeps pointing at low CO2. Here's another interesting reply from him... insight into how he reads tanks. Also gives some clues about how FBW might have triggered the BBA... I think it's the extra Ns and Ps from them.

BTW, I'm as clueless about BBA as you guys, never had them before... I'm just reading for info sake.

[kubrich]

so does tt mean we should increase co2 levels in the tank? cos i noticed tt shutting off co2 cause the bba to spread more.and does light affect bba growth? cos i blacked out my tank for 1 day already...dunno if i should black out again today...if it doesn't affect bba i wanna turn the lights back on cos i dun want the other plants to suffer too...[]

[freemann]

http://boards.aaquaria.com/topic.cgi...amp;topic=1003
http://boards.aaquaria.com/topic.cgi...;amp;topic=106
http://boards.aaquaria.com/topic.cgi...;amp;topic=927
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...;output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...;output=gplain

This is a ****y algae, no easy cure
Could algae fix, hydrogen peroxide be the answer maybe with barley straw afterwards within the filter for a period of time after algae is eradicated for preventative measures?

And some material I collected in a text so forgive the sudden changes of style the info is there:

1)I'm the guy who started the hydrogen peroxide treatment on
the APD a couple of years ago. H2O2 has worked on every type of algae
that I've tried it on, including BBA & BGA, if done properly. Doing it
properly doesn't mean just dumping some in a tank. If you use too much
you'll kill everything in the tank including the plants. The rate that
I've seen posted here of 1 oz per 12 gallons, is for a plant only tank.
Even then you'll kill all exposed snails, all the good guy bacteria,
some fine leafed delicate plants, and set you tank back to square one in
it's balancing/stabilization.

The proper use of H2O2 (3%) to eradicate any type of algae is to use a
meat injector, and inject the H2O2 directly on the algae at a rate of 1
oz per 20 gallons of water (US). Repeat once every 24 hours. This rate
is safe for snails, plants, and even delicate fish like Otto's. BBA is
tough stuff, and takes repeated treatments. If it's growing on rocks,
driftwood, heaters, etc., remove them, spray them down with H2O2 using a
spray bottle, and return them to the tank when they've stopped dripping.
Do not add any H2O2 to the water column within 24 hours of using the
spray method. Remove all affected leaves. If you keep after it, you can
win the battle. However, SAE's (for BBA) are much easier.


2)Augie Eppler wrote:

> The rate that I've seen posted here of 1 oz per 12 gallons, is for a
> plant only tank.

Correction: That should be 2 oz., not 1.

Augie Eppler


If the problem is not too severe or wide-spread, you can take an eye-dropper
and squirt the algae with hydrogen peroxide. The beards then send up
streams of bubbles and turn whitish gray. Eventually, one of the algae
eaters will eat what remains.

As to how much you can use in one treatment, my understanding is that 1 oz
per 20 gals is safe, even for otto cats. If it's a plants-only tank, you
can use as much as 2 oz. per 10 gals. Since all I ever have are small
beards here and there, I've never needed more than about an ounce at any one
time.


3)Known as black beard algae (BBA). Also known as red algae. It's
nasty stuff. Thrives on high phosphates. Only known fish that will
eat it is the siamese algae eater (SAE). (and maybe the American flag
fish, but I've never tried them). I recently added two stems of
Bacopa that were completely covered in BBA. Overnight, 5 SAES picked
the stems clean of BBA.

Best method I've found to control or prevent BBA is the make the
plants outcompete the algae for the phosphate. In tanks with good
lighting, and CO2, adding nitrate (if the plants are using all of it)
will let the plants consume more of the phosphate, since their growth
will stop when they run out of nitrate or phosphate. Adding nitrate
ensures that it isn't limiting their growth.

In tanks with lower lighting, or without CO2, BBA control takes the
form of limiting the amount of phosphate that gets added to the tank.
This means more water changes, feeding less, vacuuming the gravel
more, and possibly reducing stocking levels. If BBA problems
continue, you might want to test your tap water for phosphates. Some
water supplies contain excess phosphate, which means water changes add
more than they remove.


4)Chuck's post was right on but you are probably going to have quite a
struggle with t

[geoffrey]

Juggler,

Like to know, are those BBA very visible? Are their size sort of like those hairs in your nostril (sorry, I have to be crude here)or very thin ones like those on your arm?

I think my water parameters are quite ok but I think wrong, cos I still have BBA. pH=7, PO4=0.25~0.5ppm, NO3=undetectable and Fe=0.25ppm. Check on them every Thursday.

I noticed my BBA tends to grow on older leaves of my plants, especially when that leaf is yellowed or mottled. I have been monitoring 2 filaments of big BBA, one on my A. crispus and the other on my B carolianiana. I got rid of them by adding ~5ppm of NO3, ~20ppm of K, ~5ppm of Mg and ~10ml of Dr Mallick's aqua daily. Those 2 filament has since turned white and dropped off when my PO4 was around 0.25ppm. It took a long time.

However, newer BBA seem to appear again but they never got to the size of those 2 filaments that I was experimenting with when the PO4 raised to 0.5ppm. That's what frustrates me knowing such a small margin I have to play with for PO4. Biggest worry is my bigger fish load now.

[bclee]

In my experience, high PO4 does not necessary means BBA outbreak. High CO2 is the key to defeat BBA. I got rid of them within 2~3 weeks. I have abundance of NO3(20ppm) and PO4(40ppm) and light(3.4W/gal) in my tank. I need to keep up the CO2 to prevent algae.

I need to point out the those black looking algae that grow among hairgrass are not exactly BBA. As mentioned BBA is a red algae. If you take a close look at the algae among the hairgrass, they are dark green. They cling to the gravel near the base of the hairgrass. They look different from BBA which usually cling on to deteriorating leaves.

My suspicion on this algae is poor water circulation at the base of the HG. When I replant my HG sparsely, they were gone.

BC

[geoffrey]

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On 10/23/2002 4:53:26 PM

I need to point out the those black looking algae that grow among hairgrass are not exactly BBA. As mentioned BBA is a red algae. If you take a close look at the algae among the hairgrass, they are dark green. They cling to the gravel near the base of the hairgrass. They look different from BBA which usually cling on to deteriorating leaves.


BC
----------------

I agree with you BC, those may not be BBA. If I am not wrong, they are thick and wiry and can grow to 1 cm long. And they love to grow out from the leaf margins. But they look black to me.

[vinz]

Hahaha... I started poking around rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants. Chuck Gadd points to excess PO4 as the culprit.

Anyway, it's quite possible for FBW to cause high Phosphates (i.e. unprocessed food), but why isn't it showing up if KF's tank? Possibly it's being consumed by BBA.

In the same line of thinking, BGA is supposedly caused by low or zero N in tanks. Somehow, I have a nagging suspicion the N's were all sucked up by the BGA... otherwise, how do you explain a plantless cichlid tank having zero NO3 2 weeks after a normal water change. (It has functioning filter media and healthy fishes -> so no, it's not ammonia, nitrites not being converted.)

Assuming BBA is thriving on excess PO4... with NO3 at 10-20ppm and PO4 at 0.25-1.0 ppm, likely something else is limiting uptake of either. Could be CO2, light (doubtful), K?

Right now, I'm playing with BCLee's CO2 theory. I've had little algae in my 6ft despite high NO3, worst being a thin film of algae on the glass weekly (touch (drift)wood ). Since I upped the CO2, that algae is not noticable... I only know it's there cos of the grazing snails.

For ppl willing to experiment in the absence of a concrete answer, I'll say play with CO2 and K, both of which lead to increased photosynthesis (if all other factors are in place), which imply higher nutrient intake.

[vinz]

yes, there seem to be some confusion between that dark green hairy tufts and BBA. BBA is really black, and when you view it at a different angle or when it ripples in the current, they have a greyish reflection... kinda like when you look at black trash bags.

[geoffrey]

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On 10/23/2002 4:53:26 PM

High CO2 is the key to defeat BBA. I got rid of them within 2~3 weeks.

BC
----------------

BC, I tried that. Did 5~8 bubbles/sec and that killed my RAM and all my Yamatos. Personally, I think its a bit risky especially if you have a heavily loaded tank. Imbalance - CO2 from DIY and fishes > O2 from photosythesis.

What is your PO4 after 2 weeks of high CO2? Did the NO3 dropped too? I believe they have. Please let me know, its important.

[vinz]

Errr... don't push it beyond toxic levels.

[geoffrey]

I didn't know another 1/2 tsp of yeast could kill!