BBA on Hair Grass

[bclee]

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On 10/23/2002 5:18:35 PM

BC, I tried that. Did 5~8 bubbles/sec and that killed my RAM and all my Yamatos. Personally, I think its a bit risky especially if you have a heavily loaded tank. Imbalance - CO2 from DIY and fishes > O2 from photosythesis.

What is your PO4 after 2 weeks of high CO2? Did the NO3 dropped too? I believe they have. Please let me know, its important.
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5~8 bubbles/sec! That's a lot![]

I did a test last week. NO3 did not drop. I think it is because I have high fish load. (17 cardinals, 3 rams, 6 otos, 6 corys & 2 yamato in 15 gal of water. 2 SAE just jumped[] after being chased by the spawning rams.)

I am testing again tonight.

BC

[geoffrey]

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On 10/23/2002 5:13:23 PM

In the same line of thinking, BGA is supposedly caused by low or zero N in tanks. Somehow, I have a nagging suspicion the N's were all sucked up by the BGA... otherwise, how do you explain a plantless cichlid tank having zero NO3 2 weeks after a normal water change. (It has functioning filter media and healthy fishes -> so no, it's not ammonia, nitrites not being converted.)

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Vinz,

Low or zero NO3 results from BGA and not the other way around. BGA are bacteria that denitrifies NO3 to N. NO3 were in abundant initially that they thrived to a point that NO3 becomes completely suck up by their numbers. In fact, I think your filter have been doing a very good job nitrifying NH->NO2->NO3.

[geoffrey]

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On 10/23/2002 5:32:46 PM


I did a test last week. NO3 did not drop. I think it is because I have high fish load. (17 cardinals, 3 rams, 6 otos, 6 corys & 2 yamato in 15 gal of water. 2 SAE just jumped[] after being chased by the spawning rams.)

I am testing again tonight.

BC
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Talk about high fish load, I'm in the same sh*t though different pile! I have 50 fishes in a 35G tank, out of which, 9 are 5~7cm Rainbows! Like to know your PO4 too. Worrying over BBA now with this fish load.

[vinz]

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On 10/23/2002 5:35:38 PM

Vinz,

Low or zero NO3 results from BGA and not the other way around. BGA are bacteria that denitrifies NO3 to N2. NO3 were in abundant initially that they thrived to a point that NO3 becomes completely suck up by their numbers. In fact, I think your filter have been doing a very good job nitrifying NH->NO2->NO3.

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Geoffrey, that's my point exactly. It's just that there's quite a fair bit of literature in the net that got it the other way.

[hwchoy]

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On 10/23/2002 4:53:26 PM
I need to point out the those black looking algae that grow among hairgrass are not exactly BBA. As mentioned BBA is a red algae. If you take a close look at the algae among the hairgrass, they are dark green. They cling to the gravel near the base of the hairgrass. They look different from BBA which usually cling on to deteriorating leaves.
BC
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BC, I concur with your view. I've had BBA before and they are shortish and thickset, and is greyish black.

Those algae I have in the HG is greenish black, very fine, slender and forms a ball that sometimes break away and floats in the water. I'd rather call them BHA.

I do not think they're the same thing.

[benetay]

I had BBA before i agree with Choy with the small turf like hair that is suppose to be BBA. BBA are red algae that IMHO not dependent on lights to grow. If you burn the bba or usie chemicals to destory it, it'll turn red and slowly white.

So far i believe it's nutrients that causes it not lights.

HG is a pain in the neck when BBA attacks .

[tawauboy]

think there are 2 types.
one is thick, maybe about 0.5mm diameter, looks like staghorn.
grows long and branches out.
another is tiny and appears as turfs. like short grass growing in clumps.

correct me if i am wrong.

[hwchoy]

I spy an opportunity to do some original research and get a PhD for it

[benetay]

[] Great[]

[chrissia]

I have pics of BBA and the long dull greenish Thread algae. But coolconnect ..... @#%@&$#. []

[juggler]

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On 10/24/2002 12:11:35 AM

think there are 2 types.
one is thick, maybe about 0.5mm diameter, looks like staghorn.
grows long and branches out.
another is tiny and appears as turfs. like short grass growing in clumps.

correct me if i am wrong.
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My BBA are those tiny fluffy turfs about 0.5cm. A few weeks back, I gave the Hair Grass a trimming to remove all the BBA. But it bounced back and in even greater mass.
There are some things I thought of doing:
1) Wash the filter. Last time I washed it was 2 months back and there was explosive plant growth. Maybe now it has too much nitrifying bacteria. Removing some of them could enable the plants to access the ammonia faster and hopefully outgrow the BBA.
2) Dose more PO4?
I will try option (1) first.

[tawauboy]

prior to my last filter wash, i never had any bba.
after washing it, i have bba.

[bclee]

Do a water parameter check. It will tell the real story behind the BBA outbreak.

Check out the CO2, NO3 & PO4. Keep your fertilisation constant. You will then be able to pin down what has changed and what caused the outbreak.

Sometimes cleaning of filter or any other actions will cause different reaction in different tanks.

BC

[tawauboy]

no bba back then so never check water parameters other than ph and kh.
after noticing the bba, i got test fe, no3 and po4 test kits. i got 0.5ppm of fe, 40ppm of no3 and 1ppm of po4.

[bclee]

Your NO3 is very high. But not neccessary means problem.

IMO, if you have high lights like >3W/gal, you really need to keep up with CO2. You CO2 reading from pH and KH is important too.

This is what I think. Just hypothesising... High nutrients do not means problem. But it sort of pushes the balance to the limit especially with high light. Healthy plant growth somehow hinder aglae growth, by what means I do not know. If any components of CO2, N-P-K or traces is short, it will tip the balance over. The plants will sort of being stiffled, while algae being very adaptable will thrive... no matter it is high P or high N or high Fe.

My analogy is a car travelling on the highway. I equate the speed of the car to lighting and the wheels of the car to nutrients inc CO2. The higher the speed(light), a slight imbalance of the wheel(nutrients) will flip the car over.
BC

[tawauboy]

to reduce no3, i changed water and added frogbits.
reduced the no3 to undetectable level in about 3 weeks, by that time all the frogbits are almost dead, yellow and brown leaves. i think the no3 level is 0ppm. fe is still about 0.25ppm and po4 is about 0.5ppm.

changed 50% water every 2 weeks, trimmed leaves with bba and dosed kno3, mgso4, k2so4 and trace element from dr mallick. mine is 29gallon tank, so added 2 teaspoon of k2s04 and mgso4 each each water change. for kno3, i mixed 3 teaspoon into 100ml water which makes 1ppm/ml and have to add 3ml/day to keep no3 to about 5ppm. trace element is 3drops/day. plants bubble a lot but spot algae also a lot , can cover a palm sized lotus leaf totally within a week. no sign of bba growing.

now reduced trace to 1drop/day and noticed staghorn and green thread algae growing. parameters are now
tank - 29 gal
temp - 28deg
lights - 108W (3.7w/gal) 8hrs/day
ph - 6.8 before light on
kh - 4 (co2 - 19ppm)
no3 - 5ppm
po4 - 0.5ppm
fe - 0.5ppm

i am thinking of increasing c02 further and am using diy co2.

[vinz]

Your lights is quite high. Increasing CO2 is a good idea. While your NO3 and PO4 numbers look nice, they could be being used by the algae as well.

Noticed increased algae when your dropped the trace dosage? I think bring it back... your plants need more of it with so much light, same with the CO2. For K, try dosing 20ppm once a week.

Check your GH. If it's high, you probably already have high amounts of Mg and Ca already. High Mg blocks another nutirent, but I can't remember which. Try checking the web for that info.

[tawauboy]

well, right now there is still quite a lot of spot algae though not as bad as before.

there is increase in algae when trace dosage is dropped. thinking of adding trace into substrate rather than water column. this reduces the nutrient available to algae but plants can access through roots.

i do not check gh but i think i have high mg. a while back i had overdose of mg and all plants don't bubble much. changed water and added k and plants bubble a lot the next day.

so the next step to do is increase c02 and increase trace dosage back to 3drops/day.
will try.