Ram, goldfish, tetra and guppy?

**otacon** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:03

Can Ram, goldfish, tetra and guppy live well together? Initially, I got 3 goldfishes(2 lionhead & 1 pearlscale), 8 neon tetra. The next day, 1 tetra died. And the rest got well together. Then i threw in 4 balloon ram, and everything was fine too. Then i threw in another 6 unknown fishes. It is transparent and same size as tetra. Everything was okay as well. Then i lost another tetra. Btw, both the tetra died, but i couldn't find the bodies.
Then I threw in 4 guppies few days ago and starting from yesterday nite to today, my tetra slowly died off one by one until today morning, all tetra died, 1 guppy died, and 1 unknown fish died.
The prime suspect? I guess it's the guppies. So i removed them away and threw them to my friend's Luo Han to eat. Now the rest of the fishes are fine. Nothing happened to my balloon ram and my goldfishes.
Can i know if guppies are really aggressive? Or is it the goldfish who are doing the biting? How abt balloon ram, are they offensive as well?
Please advice.

**otacon** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:03

Can Ram, goldfish, tetra and guppy live well together? Initially, I got 3 goldfishes(2 lionhead & 1 pearlscale), 8 neon tetra. The next day, 1 tetra died. And the rest got well together. Then i threw in 4 balloon ram, and everything was fine too. Then i threw in another 6 unknown fishes. It is transparent and same size as tetra. Everything was okay as well. Then i lost another tetra. Btw, both the tetra died, but i couldn't find the bodies.
Then I threw in 4 guppies few days ago and starting from yesterday nite to today, my tetra slowly died off one by one until today morning, all tetra died, 1 guppy died, and 1 unknown fish died.
The prime suspect? I guess it's the guppies. So i removed them away and threw them to my friend's Luo Han to eat. Now the rest of the fishes are fine. Nothing happened to my balloon ram and my goldfishes.
Can i know if guppies are really aggressive? Or is it the goldfish who are doing the biting? How abt balloon ram, are they offensive as well?
Please advice.

**otacon** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:03

Can Ram, goldfish, tetra and guppy live well together? Initially, I got 3 goldfishes(2 lionhead & 1 pearlscale), 8 neon tetra. The next day, 1 tetra died. And the rest got well together. Then i threw in 4 balloon ram, and everything was fine too. Then i threw in another 6 unknown fishes. It is transparent and same size as tetra. Everything was okay as well. Then i lost another tetra. Btw, both the tetra died, but i couldn't find the bodies.
Then I threw in 4 guppies few days ago and starting from yesterday nite to today, my tetra slowly died off one by one until today morning, all tetra died, 1 guppy died, and 1 unknown fish died.
The prime suspect? I guess it's the guppies. So i removed them away and threw them to my friend's Luo Han to eat. Now the rest of the fishes are fine. Nothing happened to my balloon ram and my goldfishes.
Can i know if guppies are really aggressive? Or is it the goldfish who are doing the biting? How abt balloon ram, are they offensive as well?
Please advice.

**otacon** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:03

Can Ram, goldfish, tetra and guppy live well together? Initially, I got 3 goldfishes(2 lionhead & 1 pearlscale), 8 neon tetra. The next day, 1 tetra died. And the rest got well together. Then i threw in 4 balloon ram, and everything was fine too. Then i threw in another 6 unknown fishes. It is transparent and same size as tetra. Everything was okay as well. Then i lost another tetra. Btw, both the tetra died, but i couldn't find the bodies.
Then I threw in 4 guppies few days ago and starting from yesterday nite to today, my tetra slowly died off one by one until today morning, all tetra died, 1 guppy died, and 1 unknown fish died.
The prime suspect? I guess it's the guppies. So i removed them away and threw them to my friend's Luo Han to eat. Now the rest of the fishes are fine. Nothing happened to my balloon ram and my goldfishes.
Can i know if guppies are really aggressive? Or is it the goldfish who are doing the biting? How abt balloon ram, are they offensive as well?
Please advice.

**Trevor** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:09

Probaly the rams, i`ve never heard of goldfishes biting. Haven done any reading on that yet.

How big is yr tank and what setup ?

**budak** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:15

in theory, should be possible, though not ideal. But we need data like your tank size, filters used (if any), water change frequency, how has the tank has been setup, number of fishes/inverts, etc...

However, I must say throwing the guppies to the luohans isn't a rather nice thing to do. [

]

**vinz** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:17

No, not the rams. Rams are only aggresive towards themselves and any other fishes that look similar in shape and colour.

The first 2 tetras could have been victim of the goldfishes. A few collegues of mine have seen them chasing and gulping down their neon tetras. Do not be fooled by their clumsy, dopey look (no offence to goldfish maniacs)... they can be cruel and destructive.

I can't comment on guppy aggresiveness, but your tetras could have been lost due to disease carried by the guppies. It has happened to me before, where only one species of fishes died after the introduction of new fishes.

**lsz** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:38

i doubt it is the goldfish that killed them

Yes goldfish sometimes will eat up smaller fish and animals (but IMO this is feeding instinct not cruelty .... cruelty is a human-specific trait.)

But they dont kill a fish and leave it there to die..
Either they swallow it down or they dont touch the fish. They will not just attack for the sake of it...or for territorial reasons . They mouth structure cannot do damage too. (unlike fish like cichlids)

goldfish are opportunistic feeders...they eat whatever that come their way. They neither deliberately chase prey nor do they avoid eating any bite-sized meals..

my guess is disease.
And the bigger suspect is water quality.
You seem to be throwing a lot of fish here and there, i dont know abt your filtration etc but in average cases, it will wreck a little water chemistry havoc

**vinz** · 8th Oct 2002, 16:42

lsz, that's why I said the first 2, cos he couldn't find the bodies.

**Trevor** · 8th Oct 2002, 17:20

Ohhhhhh, I learnt something new again. Yippee!!!

**otacon** · 9th Oct 2002, 15:06

Mine is a 1 feet tank, with a internal power filter. How do I talk abt the setup of my tank? Should I say I have pebbles on the bottom of the tank with a water plant inside? I dun change the water very often, I change it abt every 3 weeks on the average. I just bought the tank for abt 3 months only. Only on the first water change, I change the full tank of water, wash the pebbles, change the filter and wash the tank. On the second and third water change, I change only 3/4 of the water, without washing the tank and pebbles. Is this good enough? What's the standard procedure to wash the tank? And what should I do to maintain a good water condition?
Please advice.

**vinz** · 9th Oct 2002, 15:47

[:0]

No... don't change so much water at the time. You should only change 25 to 30% of the water once every one or two weeks.

You also do not want to take out all your pebbles and wash your entire tank like that. On your tank surfaces, pebbles and filter media, are beneficial bacteria that convert ammonia (toxic) from fish waste into nitrite (toxic) into nitrate (not so toxic). Nitrate will build up over the weeks and you change water to dilute the nitrates. For the filter media, just rinse it. If you clean the tank too throughly, you kill off all this bacteria and the ammonia in your tank can build up quickly and kill or stress your fish.

When you siphon out the water, siphon out as much dirt trapped between the rocks as possible. You probably can't do the entire floor, so just do a certain area and clear another area the next time.

To maintain good water condition, change water regularly at the amounts stated above. Also rinse out the filter media at the same time.

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