will jbl ferropol do? or will i have to use the more expensive ferts like dennerle? this is for the iron i mean...
btw where did U get your fans from?
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I'm using JBL's Ferropol but to tell the truth, I rarely add fertiliser to my tanks. And when I do add fertiliser, I do it haphazardly. The moss is actually a very tough plant. They grow in all my tanks, in the darkest corners and also in tanks which do not have CO2 injection. I have many moss in hatching trays too where I use them to raise my killifish. The trays are under shade all the time and yet the moss stays alive. As far as I know, the moss is so tough the only way it can die is if you burn it. Even dried out moss will live again when submersed into water. Someone whose moss got lost in the mail told me that when it reached him 4 months later, half of the moss was still green. Imagine that!!!!!! 4 months in an envelope and the moss was still alive. Just kidding, but if you cannot keep the moss alive, maybe you should take up another hobby []
I bought my fans from the hardware shops around Kelantan Lane. There are several shops there that sell these fans.
By the way, you don't have to quote my whole message when asking a question. Quoting unnecessary text can be very irritating to those who are following the thread. And it's such a waste of bandwidth.
Loh K L
Don't be afraid of my duck!
After months of handwringing and seeing uncle Pete's tanks, I finally took the plunge anew and tore up my 3 footer, added base fert (which it didn't had) and tied lots of moss and ferns (javas and bolbitis) to the wood. Previously, the temp was rather high (min 30C) due to the PL lights (36Wx4), so mosses did badly. But now I added a 6 fan AC unit from Chan, and this is already bringing the temp to a noticaebly cool 26C. Hope this will get the moss moving.
by the way time bomb, your christmas moss wall is beautiful...
it has just made me do one specially for my 2 feet tank...
how much moss is enough for a 2 feet wall? from chan? 5 bucks or 10?
thanks timebomb for the info. But i remember reading from several sources that taiwan = triangluar = christmas moss, hmmm.. Was flipping thru Aqua Journal (vol 3a moment ago and saw a page (which i missed) introducing 6 different type of mosses. Here's for the benefit of those who didn't buy it.
1) Willow moss - fontinalis antipyretica
2) Water fern moss - Cratoneuron filicinum
3) Mizu kyaraba goke - taxiphyllum barbieri
4) Howo goke (pope moss) - fissidens japonica
5) Amazonia willow moss (christmas moss) - vesicularia sp.
6) Java moss - vesicularia dubyana
人的一生﹐ 全靠奮斗﹐ 唯有奮斗﹐ 才能成功
somehow my christmas moss has not been doing very well,i keep my temp at about between 26 deg celcius to about 28,have about 60watts of lights in my 2ft and co2 is at 3bps,since the out break of bba on my xmas moss i been dosing my liquid fert(jbl ferropol) in reduced doses and spread out over the week and only after 4 hours after lights have come on,the fight against bba seems really extended and ardious,really discouraging,i've since stopped feeding my fishes fbw and feed them only pellets once a day in moderation.currently i have about 90+ malayans and 20 yamatos and 2 sae's and 3 ottos to combat algae...but still,my moss's growth is slow,and the algal growth is rampant...i've tried adding in faster growing plants and more water changes,trimming my plants and all but progress is extremely slow....i guess if u want to keep xmas moss,gotta take note of ure water params,once u get bba on ure moss it can be a real pain...and to me,its really discouraging,esp when the moss is the main piece of my tank...[]
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[/quote]
Anakin, how big is your tank ? I have 4 fans for my 3ft and I can only get my temp down to between 29-30C, and my moss looks half dead. Am considering adding more fans if it can get my temp lower.
----------------
[/quote]
scoobydoo, mine's a W120xD45xH60 about 324l in all. It's placed in a non air-cond living room but away from direct sunlight. My lights are 220W in total. if you look at the last pic (Day 3) in my Aquarium album, you can just make out the 6xDC fans between my moss wall and light. I leave them on 24/7 - think it's a good idea as water takes a long time to heat up or cool down - so switching on the fans when the temp is too high will not work. BTW, where's your tank situated in your place? Any help to unravel your high temp mystery? Of course, the other possibility is that my thermometer is 'koo-koo' also.[
http://uk.photos.yahoo.com/kohsookeong
If I'm not wrong, Roland, yours is a AC fan - much bigger (and noiser)? these usu have bigger blades and cools down the temp better. BTW, sorry Roland, for causing the confusion, I meant to say my fans are blowing at the water surface right above the moss wall.
Thanks Timebomb for enlightening us. It's always good to learn something new.
oh, think there's a similar thread on AC vs DC fans in the Equipment section started by Vinz named "Cooling fans Qns". can go check it out.
have you measure the no3, po4 and fe level in your tank?----------------
On 11/11/2002 11:21:17 PM
somehow my christmas moss has not been doing very well,i keep my temp at about between 26 deg celcius to about 28,have about 60watts of lights in my 2ft and co2 is at 3bps,since the out break of bba on my xmas moss i been dosing my liquid fert(jbl ferropol) in reduced doses and spread out over the week and only after 4 hours after lights have come on,the fight against bba seems really extended and ardious,really discouraging,i've since stopped feeding my fishes fbw and feed them only pellets once a day in moderation.currently i have about 90+ malayans and 20 yamatos and 2 sae's and 3 ottos to combat algae...but still,my moss's growth is slow,and the algal growth is rampant...i've tried adding in faster growing plants and more water changes,trimming my plants and all but progress is extremely slow....i guess if u want to keep xmas moss,gotta take note of ure water params,once u get bba on ure moss it can be a real pain...and to me,its really discouraging,esp when the moss is the main piece of my tank...[
----------------
it'll help in you combat against bba.
thomas liew
Yup anakin, i guess its a AC. I am only good in "void main void", "AC DC" are aliens to me, haha.
Not much noise generated, unless, i think, you are reusing one found deep inside the store room?
人的一生﹐ 全靠奮斗﹐ 唯有奮斗﹐ 才能成功
Anakin, think I'll try run my fans for 24/7. Now it's turned on only when the lights are on.
Timebomb, love your moss wall. My wf has always wanted a moss wall, our one and only try ended in fishes caught behind the mesh and BBA outbreak. If I can manage to get my temp down to 27-28C, then I'll try the moss wall again
since the out break of bba on my xmas moss i been dosing my liquid fert(jbl ferropol) in reduced doses
----------------
If you have Black Brush Algae in your tanks, I would advise you to stop adding fertiliser. You will be surprised how little fertiliser the plants actually need. Juvenile SAEs will eat BBA but they will only eat the new growth. Adult SAEs will only eat fish food and Christmas moss. In other words, adult SAEs are useless as algae eaters.
One way to combat algae is to introduce a few bunches of stem plants into your tank. Fast growing plants like Hygrophilia difformis and Micranthenum micranthemoides are useful plants for keeping algae in check. The theory behind this is that fast growing plants will take up all the excess nutrients in the water, thereby preventing algae from growing.
When the algae has been completely eradicated, you can remove the fast growers. But do it gradually as sudden removals of too many plants can cause another algae outbreak.
Loh K L
thanks timebomb for the info. But i remember reading from several sources that taiwan = triangluar = christmas moss, hmmm.. Was flipping thru Aqua Journal (vol 3
---------------
You are right about the names. In the old days, the Christmas moss was actually known as Taiwan or Triangular Moss. The Christmas moss name became popular largely because of the internet. When James Lim, the publisher of the Aquajournal, asked me about the moss and I told him I like to call it Christmas moss, his magazine furthur help to popularise the name. You may find this unbelievable but back then, only a handful of hobbyists in Singapore has the Christmas moss in their tanks. And I was one of the first few to grow the moss reasonably well. James Lim is a close friend of mine. Back in those days, no other fish shop in Singapore has the moss other than Crowntol. Even Oriental Aquarium, one of the largest aquatic plant import/exporters in the world does not have this plant.
Back then too, it was okay to call it Taiwan, Triangular or Christmas as there was only one moss in the market besides Java. But when another moss from Taiwan made its appearance, there was a need to distinguish between the 2 mosses by calling one Christmas and the other Taiwan.
Loh K L
by the way time bomb, your christmas moss wall is beautiful...
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Thank you very much for all the praises about my moss wall. I'm one person who believes in sharing information so I never lie or hide anything. So believe me when I say this:
It's really quite easy to grow the christmas moss. I rarely add fertiliser to my tanks and I never change the water parameters. In other words, the water in my tanks is the same as the water that comes from my taps. Many times in the last few years, many hobbyists have told me they can't grow the moss inspite of the fact that they have chillers and are constantly monitoring their water parameters.
Many hobbyists add bicarbonate of soda to their tanks to increase the Kh. I never do that. And I suspect that's the reason why my moss grows well. Besides low temperatures, soft water must be the other factor that affects the growth of the moss.
Loh K L
timebomb...Singapore's tap water KH is at most 2 and mostly is zero....with no addition of baking soda or KH powder a pH crash is very likely. Don't you think so? []
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
timebomb...Singapore's tap water KH is at most 2 and mostly is zero....with no addition of baking soda or KH powder a pH crash is very likely. Don't you think so?
----------------
Peter, I think the Kh of my water is zero but I'm not sure as I never check.
As for Ph crashing, I haven't seen anything like that happening to my tanks yet. I let my CO2 run non-stop 24 hours a day and I don't do anything to buffer the water. So far, touch wood, I haven't suffer any massive die-offs in my tanks yet. That's one reason I tell hobbyists to stop using solenoid valves. There is no need to cut off the CO2 when the lights are off and there's no need to use an air pump to aerate the water either.
Edward Yow, a close friend of mine who setups and maintains fish tanks professionally says he no longer uses solenoid valves in his setups. The fish shop owners will tell you otherwise, of course. The more products they sell, the more money they make.
Loh K L
Just to share some information - Wright Huntley who hangs around the Aquatic Plant Digest and KillieTalk Digest and who's an expert on Killifish wrote this the other day.
Loh K L
------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:56:24 -0800
From: Wright Huntley <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Mythical "pH kill" (was message)
Fish mostly don't feel pH (above 4 and below 10) and most plants are
pretty tolerant of a very wide range of pH, too. It is easy to measure and
sometimes accompanies *other* chemical changes, so pH-change gets a very
high level of mythology attached to it. The chemical illiteracy of a
number of authors of fish books just adds to this problem.
Until you really know what actually changed and caused the die-off, so you
can prevent a repeat, I suggest that you not ask folks to replace your
losses. The pH shift may have accompanied the toxic blast, but it is
unlikely there is any causal relationship between pH change and the die off.
That's just my US$0.02. [Free advice is, of course, worth every penny,
too.
Wright
----------------
On 11/11/2002 4:35:23 PM
yupz, they r the same. I think christmas moss thrive in low temp. If you can keep it in cold env, it would be best. But to achieve 26-28, i guess u don't need a chiller. 3 fans for 4ft i think would be enough, huh? Just that you will have to top up water frequently.
----------------
Just another silly question from me... I seem to have so many of them!!
If the evaporation rate is high, does this mean that topping up water is a replacement of the weekly water change routine?
-----------------------------
Clarence Hoe
Nope..thats not changing water...you still need to remove water from the tank.
Plant Physiology by Taiz and Zeiger
how come you don't check?----------------
Peter, I think the Kh of my water is zero but I'm not sure as I never check.
----------------
i'd like to know how your moss grows so well.
where did you buy your moss from?
chan at nature sells taiwan or christmas moss?
i think christmas is nicer so where can i get christmas moss and not taiwan moss from?
in your web site you showed how to do up a moss wall for a 2 feet tank, isn't the plastic mesh very flimsy and would be difficult to install? and with the suction pads behind the mesh making a gap between the moss wall the glass of the tank bigger, make the moss wall a death trap for fish and shrimps?
btw can i buy moss from you if u have any to harvest?[
Don't be afraid of my duck!
On the subject of water hardness, for most of us who keep planted tanks and the associated soft/blackwater fishes, I really think pH to be probably the least of the problems. Yes, I know acidity increases logarithmically as pH falls, but it's not "instant", so to say, rather throughout the cause of the day, and I don't think natural water conditions are stagnant either.
Anyway, sites like Dupla's which lists water conditions in places where crypts, barclayas etc originate (also home to gouramis, rasboras, barbs, bettas....) note pH levels as low as 4-5. I would actually think it's great for the fish (unless you are a Rift Lake cichlid), as low pH hinders ammonia toxicity as well as whacks lots of pathogens.
On another note, isn't the virtually mineral-free water that we get nearly FOC the prize for aquarists who want to spawn tough cookies like chocolate gouramis, cardinal tetras....?
Get the basics right with good husbandry (regular water changes, low fish stock, disciplined feeding/fertilisation, and lots of background research) and KH shouldn't be a big concern.
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