Maximum size of Apistogramma species

[FishSoup]

Hey guys, i was at c328 earlier today, and to my astonishment saw two absolutely gigantic male cacas

These guys are even larger than the giant bettas, i think they're easily 4 inches long, maybe more.

Are they some specially bred giant breed of caca? Or some wild variant which grows to a much larger size than normal?

[iwishweallcouldwin]

Normal Ap. cacatuoides have the ability to grow until that size. my previous 2 pieces also reached that measurement. I saw those two which you mentioned as well. Hopefully they'll get 'rescued' from their small containers soon enough.

[benny]

They are about 3 inches long. Last night, Michael Lai and I was looking in disbelief that the shop actually brough in these 'matured' speciments. They are probably males from the breeding groups that are no longer productive. Hence you see only single sex offering.

Most hobbyists prefer specimens that are further away from the tail end of their projected lifespan.

Cheers,

[yorky]

I gotta go see these fishes..

I recalled the last time EcoCulture brought in 2 pairs of matured A. trifasciata.
It was the commercial breeder's breeding stock.
Not only was it big it was super swee...

[Wackytpt]

That reminds of the Ulitmate big size Inka in the old Chong Sua...

[genes]

Saw them yesterday too. Very nice red patterns on the tail and dorsal plus long dorsal and lyrate caudal fins. These giant size apistos are by no means freaks of nature. I have seen before even Ap. diplotaenia reaching this size. And all the while i thought Ap. diplotaenia are suppose to be the smallest variant. These are the true sizes of alot of full grown specimens.

You can acheive this kind of sizes too for your apistos. My first Ap. cacatuoides grow up to 4inches as well in my 3footer. Just provide the fish with a big environment to roam about and clean water. The reason why our apistos always remain small is with the small space we allocate to them. Hence, their growth is stunted.

[doppelbanddwarf]

Diplotaenias at this size!
Wow that would be some sight.

[yorky]

Frankly, I don't know if dwarf cichlids growing out of their normal sizes is considered an object of beauty.
Guys what do you think.. ?
So based on Genes's experience, is it a good thing or a bad thing then?

[celticfish]

Hmm... I smell a short dicourse on the finer points of "apisto appreciation" coming up...
a la Scorates style some more...

[michael lai]

I can't imagine a forum with members that all share the same thoughts, I think it's called a "cult". hahaha beauty is in the eye of the beholder, who cares if the fish is 4" or 6".....anyway, I believe it's already a victory for the fish owner if he can rear the fish to 80% of the wild size( alot of TLC here )

[yorky]

haha.. Michael, the thing is wild sized apistogrammas don't grow to these sizes.
So big sized apistogrammas seems not quite natural... So instead of 80% of wild size, we are talking about 150%.. hehe.
In fact, I recalled reading in Cichlid Atlas I, that wild caught apistogrammas are at most young adults before the dry season comes.

Celticfish, is this discussion philosophical enough for you yeah?

[doppelbanddwarf]

Well I do not like my Apistogrammas to become like these giants but I'm really curious as to what such a large A.diplotaenia would look like.

[leeruisheng]

I used to keep A.diplotaenia and they grew bigger than T.candidi.

[genes]

I'm not sure if wild will not reach these sizes though. Some information on the atlas seems to be wrong as i learn along the way. But its true that wild caught apistos that we buy may not reach these sizes since their growth is cut off by the dry season. However, if we were to keep these wild caught apistos in our aquariums, there is nothing to stop them from growing to their maximum if the condition is right since they would never experience the dry season! Nontheless, yorky could be right as well regarding captive fishes living to these huge sizes. The 3.5 to 4inch Ap. diplotaenia i saw was also captive bred by the german breeder Wilhelm.

Good or bad, i think it depends on how the hobbyist look at it as Michael put's it, eye of the beholder. For example, My dad did enjoy the presence of a huge red Ap. cacatuoides in my 3 footer as my show fish and frown upon when i changed it to a small Ap. sp Wilhelmi which at his peak, also grew up to 4 inches in my 3footer.

Oh, guys if you drop by GreenChapter, try to search for this Apisto in their main display tank. I'm not sure if its a Ap. Uaupesi, Ap. sp rotkeil or Ap. sp blutkehl though, or wild or bred. But its big too.

[yorky]

Genes, that fish in GreenChapter is stunted.. A. uapesi can grow larger than that.
Do observe the size of the eyes relative to its body..

[genes]

The atlas documented the length as 9cm. Cannot be sure how big the guy at GC is but it does look malnourished with a thin body and so a bigger looking head and its bigger then the specimen i'm holding. By the way, the very nice specimen is yours yorky? Ventral is super long! Way beyond the anal fin. Pity didn't get to see it for too long, so didn't notice the eyes. Saw that specimen for a short moment before it got lost in the huge tank with the dense vegetation. Maybe its still gonna get bigger if it has not reached its maximum size given the huge tank to roam about.

[michael lai]

haha.. Michael, the thing is wild sized apistogrammas don't grow to these sizes.
So big sized apistogrammas seems not quite natural... So instead of 80% of wild size, we are talking about 150%.. hehe.
In fact, I recalled reading in Cichlid Atlas I, that wild caught apistogrammas are at most young adults before the dry season comes.

Celticfish, is this discussion philosophical enough for you yeah?

Oops, sorry yorky me bad. Limited knowledge on this genus, anyway my stand is as long as they didn't do anything unnatural to it like steriods injection then I'm fine, hmm maybe I should get the big guy from C328 and dump into my pleco tank since they're from the same biotope...

[yorky]

Mike, yes I would have to agree with you.. so long as its all natural.
In fact, I quite like it too.. quite tempted myself.. hehe

[genes]

Micheal, clear both of them! Then you will have a spectecular sight when they display at each other for dorminance! Remember to "snap snap" when they does that!

[yorky]

The atlas documented the length as 9cm. Cannot be sure how big the guy at GC is but it does look malnourished with a thin body and so a bigger looking head and its bigger then the specimen i'm holding. By the way, the very nice specimen is yours yorky? Ventral is super long! Way beyond the anal fin. Pity didn't get to see it for too long, so didn't notice the eyes. Saw that specimen for a short moment before it got lost in the huge tank with the dense vegetation. Maybe its still gonna get bigger if it has not reached its maximum size given the huge tank to roam about.

Yo Genes, not mine.. and to think I thought it was yours! haha.
I have been dreaming of 2 pairs of A. sp rotkeil 'Rio icana'.
Like the ones in An Aquarium.. hehe.