3 feet Pleco Tank - any suggestions? Compatibility?

[Savant]

Hi all,

I am thinking of redoing an old 3ft standard tank for plecos. No plants or minimum plants - annubias and the like perhaps.

This will house the 2 sturistoma (not sure if this is spelt correctly) whiptails that I have from another tank and possibly an additional 2-3 of the same.

The idea is low plant maintenance/count, plug in a super good filter and do more water changes instead of the planted jungle it previously was.

Other species I am interested in include the zebra pleco and some bristlenose dwarf catfishes. Will that be too many for a 3ft? What other fishes can I add and what are the options I can have in relation to rocks and/or wood?

I will probably do the tank from new (old tank but new stuff inside) and will go slow - taking in ideas now.

from a previous research, will probably use a FX5 Fluval for this setup.

[celticfish]

From my experience sturisoma is compatible with zebra plecos.
Though the sturisoma can do better with a lower temp.
I have 6 breeding adults with 44 juveniles of various sizes in a 3 ft tank.
I know the bioload is high and have "over-filtration" and more WC to compensate.
Gecko has a pair in his breeding colony tank for zebras.

From reports I have read, BN are also compatible with zebras and sturisoma.
However, BN are in direct competition with the zebras for hiding/breeding spots.
They have very similar requirements and are more active at night.
Much easier to "train" to take food in the day than zebras.
If you are just "keeping" them then the mix should be okay IMO.
If you intend to breed them best to just choose either the zebra or BN.

[Savant]

Bro,

Thank you for this. I am looking to start my new tank on zebras and was about to approach you via a PM as I note that you had in a few months ago done something similar and posted quite a few questions in the various forums.

I plan to take this slow and am in the information collection stage now. The decommissioning of the old tank will also take time. I plan to finish the set up by April and move the whiptails in first, then when all is stable to add the zebras in by May-July depending on funds and availability.

Where is a good place to buy them, I didnt spot them in C328 recently.

[celticfish]

Planning your setup and researching will save your resources (both equipment and livestock)!

I don't think C328 has any zebras.
In fact auntie was telling me that she will not want to bring in small ones anymore.
She had some "bad experience" with the small ones as she can't provide a sole tank for them.
She will only bring in larger ones in her shop, IF avialable.
This I assume to be at least 1.5" to 2" fish.

NKS is the only place that has them now.
I'm not sure how many pieces they has as I have not been there lately.
But you can always PM them at PCS --> here
Go to the "Commercial Pleco Trade" section.
I believe someone from AF got them on the cheap recently.
But I'm not certain which ones and what size.

[Savant]

Oh dear, a short supply. :P usually means a price hike!

Will got to the other forum to take a look.

[Quixotic]

Actually, they have always been in short supply, partly because of the export ban from Brazil which included H. zebra, due to their dwindling numbers in the wild. What you see in the LFS are most likely home/farm bred (or "unofficial" exports), which is why anyone who has them are encouraged to breed them.

[celticfish]

Just like Quixotic said.
There is no "season" for them now and only F1's are more "readily" avialable.
I remember when I first started researching the fish the export ban was already in force.
When they were, they were snapped up before end of the day!
And the price went from Low $200 to high $200.
When the queue finally got to my turn it was $300+...
Best get the ones in NKS while they are there...

[Savant]

Ah, I visited PCS and note that a number of Singaporeans are breeding them?

I would like to explore the possibility of a purchase from a hobbyist for 2 reasons. I can't rush for the stocks in NKS (if at 200 a piece, I will need to set back some 1200 for 6 which is really a large sum of money for a beginner).

I will also need time to work on the tank, removing old substrate, fishes, etc, cleaning up etc all takes time (I think for me, I will take at least 2-3 weekends to decommission a tank)

Setting up will take time too, building of caves, sourcing rocks, arranging, etc.

Buying from a hobbyist would allow me to tap on their experiences and expertise.

[Savant]

As a first step, I went ahead to buy a 2028 from C328 today. Was initially thinking of a FX5 but decided to go with eheim as recommended by most of the bros here. Hope the flow will be enough.

I plan to run this in the old tank (some endlers, a sae and some shrimps) to cycle the filter medium? Next is to look for suitable substrate (Do you guys recommend fine sand and where to get them? C328 seems to only have crushed coral) and suitable driftwood, rocks and caves.

Driftwood I think Eco-Culture can get. Any leads on the rocks (River[round] rocks or slate?)

[celticfish]

Flow wise, I believe your Ehiem 2028 should be sufficient.
Unless you are targeting the "high flow rate" that some pleco keepers want.

Personally, I have a Eheim 2026 in my 3 ft setup with the sturisoma.
I added a Resun Int. Power Filter SP-1200L (flow rate 700 lph) more for mechanical filtration than additional flow rate.

I cannot advise you on the sand substrate as I've never used sand... yet.
Maybe someone else can advise you on this.
A point to note on sand is that it should not beach beach sand.
There would be too much salt content and I think it would take you "forever" to get rid of it totally.
Worse scenario is you think you've washed it "enough" but it continues "leeching" salt into you tank.
And most pleco, from my meager knowledge, don't take too well to the presence of salt in their water...

[Quixotic]

I am not sure if fine sand will work with H. zebra, but there are reports that with some pleco, they will kick up sand storms and the fine sand gets suck into the filter. I think that river sand, which is larger and heavier, may be more suitable.

Just my 2 cents.

[celticfish]

Quixotic,
Yes H. zebra do kick up a "sandstorm" when they want to let each other know who's BOSS too!
My dennerle gravel has bald spots from their show-off sessions...
The "get around" for that is to saw-off part of the inlet pipe so that the basket in mid-level of the tank.
This also prevents early clogging of the cannister from sand and poo-poo.

[Freshman]

Do you guys recommend fine sand and where to get them?

I will cover the filter inlet with sponge when using fine sand with canister.
Prevent sand from being suck in during sandstorm.

As for where to buy them, have you checked with Petmart, NA or C328?

Question:
What's the difference between fine sand & river sand?

[Savant]

I will cover the filter inlet with sponge when using fine sand with canister.
Prevent sand from being suck in during sandstorm.

As for where to buy them, have you checked with Petmart, NA or C328?

Question:
What's the difference between fine sand & river sand?

So fine sand is still an option? I did go down to C328.

One problem is I am not sure what the river/fine sand looks like. I couldn't find fine white sand. The closest I found was a packet of salt :P which I thought was sand! Sad thing about C328 is that you will need to know your stuffs as Auntie has little time to entertain you and Uncle will ignore you if your questions are too difficult or maybe too stupid. Want to try NA/Petmart but the distance is prohibiting me. I live in the west.

River sand sounds good and may be truer to the Biotope.

Rio Xingu is afterall a river and sand that is too find would inadvertently get washed away by the current.

While I have some idea of what river sand is, to be sure, I googled "river sand" and I am now thoroughly confused! Do you mean river gravel, which are small bits of smooth pebbles?

I assume that I should only require a very thin layer of whatever sand for them to play with?

[Freshman]

So fine sand is still an option?

Yes. I believe as long as there are some pre-filtration attached to the canister inlet, fine sand won't be a problem.
(my canister is connected to a sponge filter in my Tanganyika cichlid setup - using grade 0 coral sand.)

You might also want to consider positioning the inlet higher.. further away from the tank bottom.

[michael lai]

Hi Savant,
Do not worry too much about the sand, lapis is cheap and good and used by alot of hobbyist here for L046. Dennerle quartz is another good choice but abit on the high side. My 2 cents try out on a lesser price L number before going for zebras as the lesson could be costly. Although not rocket science there's more to the fish than just substrate alone, watch your water parameters closely.. have fun and welcome to the exciting world of pleco keeping.

[Savant]

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your post.

I guess I am not 100% decided on L46s. May end up doing whiptails or another L number. The advantage in going directly into L46s is that as a result of the immerse interest in the fish here and internationally, there is more available literature on it than most other L numbers, thus enhancing the chance of getting it right.

Cost wise I note that the other L numbers also do not come cheap :P. Another advantage is that of all the fishes I have shown my GF, the L46 is one of those few that she likes and approves of (she likes apistos too but find them too territorial) so with L46s, I can share my hobby with her.

I also read that they are a low bioload/waste producing fish that are supposed to be easier to maintain once a good system is in place.

Finally, I am very poisoned by the Rio Xingu biotope setups that I see online (especially Bro Gekko's tank and Bro AquaObsession's inspiration).

For the above reasons I hope to get it right the very first time. With this fish I do hope to invest the patience and money to get everything right and will only get the fish once the tank is absolutely ready.

Will go to NA (or is there a better fish shop for these things, where I can tap on the knowledge of the shop uncle/auntie) one of these weekends to view all the different available substrates.

[Gecko]

Hi Savant

If you ignore the algae, glare and cloudy water (just dosed with Easylife), this is a simple 4' setup I did recently using slates and caves. You might find lapis sand or bare bottom as better options.



Closeup of left side:


p.s. L46 may look cute and gentle but if ever a Alpha male trapped another male in a cave, the trapped male can be eaten alive....currently in this new setup, 2 big males are fighting for the right to mate, the loser is now nursing 3big angry red holes on both sides of his body...he has a 75% chance of recovery with regular water change and Easylife.

When you see the first fry in your tank, the feeling is hard to describe but everything will seem worthwhile.

pps. My wife and I share this project too.

[michael lai]

Wah...just like a scene from a amazon river! very nice, gecko!

[Quixotic]

Gecko, very impressive setup, this would definitely be a great home for the H. zebra.