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Thread: Dennerla plants fertilizers

  1. #1
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    Dennerla plants fertilizers

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    Hi,

    I've bought 2 bottles of plant supplements, E15 and Gold-7(the smallest bottle I can find) and I've also bought a pack of JBL Ferrotabs. Can someone advise me how to dose them on a 2ft tank? Need to work out something which is cost effective cos dennerla products are not cheap if I want it in long run.
    From what I see in the instructions, Gold-7 for every 7 days and E15 on the 15th of each month. Isn't it gonna be alot of fertiliser in the substrate? I've already added sera floradepot as the base fertiliser during initial setup. The plants I got is a four-colored lotus plantlet, hornwort, swords, glosso, java moss and riccia. All under experimental stage where I still haven't decided which plants to plant at which position.

    I bought the 2 bottles of dennerla at $46, is it reasonable? Cos I asked NA and the lady quote me $28 for a bottle instead of $16-$18 which I saw labelled on the counter. She said it's becos supplier increased the pricing. Intend to get a Eheim 2026 but Chan said that he got no stock onhand and gotta wait until end of this month.
    Regards,
    Brigitte

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    if you want cheap, you should try pmdd. my tank is completely dosed using that (ie: kso4, mgso4, chelated fe, trace). search for past posts.

    its like $40 of reageants split four ways and what's left can last you a life time..

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    PMDD not for me cos I know I'm not that good at mix and match. Anyway, I just overcome one round of algae attack and don't think I want another round of it so soon. I guess I have to survive on expensive products or either go for JBL's or seachem's since they are much cheaper than dennerle. Unless some nice person reccomend me with some good formulas which I can make do with.
    Regards,
    Brigitte

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    dawn, read the instruction on the leaflet.. jus dose accord to how much water u change

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    since dAwNdAwN asked abt Dennerle fertilizers, i would like to ask if the whole set of the fert is necessary.. and if i get the whole set, do i still need to dose those trace elements like mgso4??

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    From the dosage schedule point of view, I guess:
    -E15 consist of mainly potassium and minute chelated iron
    -Gold-7 is so called enzymes which I think that it consist of iron, macronutrients and humid acids
    You have to supplement the above with trace elements as you do not have V30.

    Unlike Seaschem, it does not tell us what chemistry is in it. I knew of Dupla's from the web. I use them as part of my reference. Dupla's fertilization seems to be a bit too conservative but safe.

    Before I answer your question, let me go through some basics with you as I could feel your frustration with PMDD due to lack of knowledge in them. There is no one straight way, my friend. There are many factors that constitute success and failure in planted tank. The major ones are:
    1) Tank
    a) water volume: bigger the better. Why?
    - to minimise chemistry flactuation and allow dosing mistakes
    - bigger is easier and cheaper to maintain, contrary to most beginner's thought. Only the setup capital is higher. If it is going to be your long term hobby, it is worth it. Small tanks are for the experts.
    b) Tank dimension: length should START with 4 ft, wide 2 ft and depth 22". Why?
    - For both cost effective and neccessary. 4 ft light tube is the cheapest compare to other sizes and has the widest range of selections.
    - 2ft wide allow ESSENTIAL room for light, fan and opening for feeding.
    - 22" depth is quite idea for both light setup and ease of maintenance (reaching the substrate). Too shallow will prohibit certain plant from growing high. Too deep will be difficult to maintain and requires more light. Depth is the main consideration for light setup. Light (red & yellow) has problem to penetrate deep water.
    - any tank bigger than this would cost more from tank to lighting to maintenance but they have higher chance to success and looks great.
    c) Tank Design
    - the glass must be thick enough to eliminate any chance of breakage. You do not want to hurt anyone or a beautifully matured to shatters.
    - the glass must have proper top ribs to hold/streghten the tank in shape. Ask the tank maker to glue the ribs higher, so that you could use the height to the fullest.

    2) Base fertilizer
    - use from JBL, Dupla, Seachem to Dennerle. Just matters of what you can afford. All of them works. I mix 2 of them in one setup to increase chances of success.
    - laying them is the most important thing. Mix them with equal volume of gravel and lay them on the bare bottom, sloping them from front to back. Same as clean gravel, lay above the base fert with slope. There should be (depend on tank size) at least 3" thick of clean gravel on them for a 4 footer.

    I have to go, out with my family. I will continue next time if you think it is helpful.

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    dawndawn,

    The simplest way to know how to dose is to calculate the volume of your tank... This is basically the lengthxwidthxheight (up to water level) of the tank divided by 1000. Once you have the volume of water, you can dose your fertilizer according to the directions given.

    With dennerle products, I used gold 7 weekly, and alternated E15/V30 on alternate weeks... This regime worked well for me, and was relatively problem free.

    Morpheus,

    most makers of fertilizers would recommend you use their complete range of products... whether or not this is necessary is a point for discussion... What can probably be said is that using a complete range of products typically ensures that your complete fertlization needs are met. Whether you can do this with mix and match is questionable.

    As for me, I'm currently using a blend of tropica master grow, dennerle gold 7, and some extra dosing with KNO3 to make up for lack of nitrates and an extra shot of potassium. Also supplementing my substrate with jobes sticks, laterite balls, and root monsters depending on the plant.
    Allen

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    ----------------
    On 11/24/2002 5:04:46 PM
    Morpheus,

    most makers of fertilizers would recommend you use their complete range of products... whether or not this is necessary is a point for discussion... What can probably be said is that using a complete range of products typically ensures that your complete fertlization needs are met. Whether you can do this with mix and match is questionable.

    As for me, I'm currently using a blend of tropica master grow, dennerle gold 7, and some extra dosing with KNO3 to make up for lack of nitrates and an extra shot of potassium. Also supplementing my substrate with jobes sticks, laterite balls, and root monsters depending on the plant.
    ----------------
    err.. so do u recommend the whole range or i mix and match for liq. fert? i havent started liq. fert in my tank yet and i am planning to start but not sure which direction i shld head at.. as for jobe sticks root monsters and laterite balls i will be getting them.. im only thinking of liq. fert now... giving me headache.. because if the whole range covers everything..i will get it as it would be easier rather than adding pmdd.. and if i were to use pmdd i also dunno wat shld i get to make sure my plants get everything.. care to advise??

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    Hi Morph3us,
    No, I am not trying to recommend a mix of fert but merely helping Dawndawn ith what he already have, namely E15 & Gold-7.
    However, a mix of ferts is a good idea as it would give fuller coverage of the traces that one type might lack. However, it may be tricky to do this. I give you an example:
    -Say "A" brand requires 10ml for every 100L of water change and brand "B" says 20ml for every 100L. To mix them evenly, add 5ml of brand "A" and 10ml of brand "B" for 100L.

    PMMD is a blend that is done ccording to Dupla's formulae. It is perfectly fine to ue them. Ask for the neutral mix, that is, basic with non-tweaked blend (that is without adding KNO3, KSO4, etc). This is for beginners. In this way, one get to save some bucks.

    For ease of use, I would recommend JBL liq fert. After years of experimenting, I find that it is quite a good one. It has all the essential elements plus potassium and magnesium in it. If you want a bit fancy, add Seachem iron with it but half the iron dose. Split the dose into every 3 days. Typically, for a 4 footer (360L water), add 1 ml every 3 days. For 2 footer, add 0.3 ml every 3 days. This iron will keep the water column alway replenish with soluble iron which the plant can really use. It also compliments the nutrients provided by the fish food.

    I hope this helps.

















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    ----------------
    On 11/24/2002 9:21:08 PM

    err.. so do u recommend the whole range or i mix and match for liq. fert? i havent started liq. fert in my tank yet and i am planning to start but not sure which direction i shld head at.. as for jobe sticks root monsters and laterite balls i will be getting them.. im only thinking of liq. fert now... giving me headache.. because if the whole range covers everything..i will get it as it would be easier rather than adding pmdd.. and if i were to use pmdd i also dunno wat shld i get to make sure my plants get everything.. care to advise??
    ----------------
    Morpheus,

    If you have the $$$, and you don't mind spending it, then go for the full blown solution from a single brand... like dennerle's E15/V30/S7/Gold7... This will more or less ensure all your plant needs are taken care of... Above that, you might just like to dump some root monsters or laterite balls for plants which take up their nutrients more from roots or iron intensive plants.

    The only reason I don't use the full blown dennerle solution any more is cuz it costs a lot. Otherwise, I would say that the dennerle solution gave really good results! no doubt about it... just painful on the wallet.
    Allen

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    ok, guys. Thanks for the recommendation. I guess I know what to do then. Now I only gotta find a good liquid fertilizer after I finished the bottle of Geoliquid which suxs...
    Regards,
    Brigitte

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    geoliquid is a liquid fertilizer?
    think it is a water conditioner only.
    thomas liew

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    yah geo liquid is a water conditioner though there is a version for "water plants" which supposedly helps, but frankly I wouldn't consider it a fert.
    Allen

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    you have to look out for gimicky products.

    basically any product where the mechanism for action is described in a non scientific matter should come under scrutiny.

    geoliquid cites Magnectic forces at work. (lol)

    it may work, but probably not in the matter described:
    eg: product might contain flocullants, etc..

    Live bacteria claims are quite astonishing, you already know how if your filter is powered off, your denitrifying and ammonia consumption bacteria start dying off, its quite remarkable that the bacteria in a bottle can survive without food/oxygen after like 6 mths on the product shelf.

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    Having said all that, for more experienced planters like our gurus, Vinz, Simon, Sherchoo, Juggler, etc on this site, they adopted the test and add method which is what I wish to term as more new-age. They would add N, P, K on top all the essentials to explore, drive and obtain the plants to their limits. CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. This is a new ground that I had just started to appreciate. I learnt the traditional ways from some major schools of thought like Dennerle, Dupla, Diana Walstad, etc which in many way throw out contradictions. However, this where one get to read between the lines and find the commons in them, the differences and judge what is really workable for the hobby.

    Have fun.

  16. #16
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    i consider myself as a newbie, armed with no test kit and adding chemicals in i dunno of

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    I'm not guru... I'm busybody. [] Just sharing what I've read and/or tried, results etc. I'm not driving plants to their limits either. More like trying to find ways to grow healthy, beautiful plants in a mostly algae free tank with less lights and trouble.

    I'm still learning too.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
    Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:
    A woman, without her man, is nothing.
    A woman: without her, man is nothing.

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    I believe in pressing evolution to the max, plants that survive in my tank are Stayers , not Quitters...

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    quitters...... that's because they are starved of nutrients and got conked by screwed water condition.[][]
    thomas liew

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