Twice a bad mom, always a bad mom?

[theodore]

One of my agassizii 'Tefe' female ate her eggs again! This is the second time this particular fish has done it and I'm thinking of giving up on her (breeding, not living).

Do you think this is a case of bad parenting gene or just inexperience (that can be overcome with a few more attempts)?

On a happier note, at least her smaller, less beautiful neighbor (also an agassizii 'Tefe') and her 10+ fries are doing fine for now.

[celticfish]

I'd suggest you check the water quality in her tank first.

You can then strip her eggs the next time to experiment.
Since she will eat them anyway and let her try the next time.

Also, as you have another good parent female you can try to foster the fry to her.

[jacian]

Just to share my experience on my pair.
1st spawn - All free swimming frys suspect eaten by the mom.
2nd spawn - Frys did not reach free swimming stage, suspect eaten as well
3rd spawn - Eggs all eaten, maybe eggs are not fertilized
4th spawn - Mom now herding her group of free swimming frys which are 2 weeks old now.

[illumnae]

i had a pair of apistos (Ap. bitaeniata "tefe bauna") where the female was a particularly bad mom. it took her 8 tries before she finally successfully raised a brood.

[theodore]

jacian and illumnae:

Thanks for sharing your encouraging experiences. I give this female a few more chances before writting her off (into my community tank).

celticfish:

Water should not be an issue. Both females are in the same 2ft tank (separated by a transparent divider). I'm using an internal (smallest Atman I could find) filter with a long rain bar that stretches across both partitions.

I did consider artifical hatching but thought it might be better to leave things a bit more natural.

[celticfish]

What jacian and illumnae say are quite valid for cichlid "new parents".
They can take quite numerous spawns to get it right.

My suggestion was more of "if you can't wait"... hehe
There is still one question in this pair as you don't know if the male shooting duds.
If you have witness wrigglers then this question can be closed.

[theodore]

I have only one agassizii 'Tefe' male right now (splitting his time between 2 females) so I'm quite sure he doesn't need any fertility treatment

[Goondoo]

I have only one agassizii 'Tefe' male right now (splitting his time between 2 females) so I'm quite sure he doesn't need any fertility treatment

Dream lifestyle....

[joopsg]

well. The female will eat her offsprings to attract the male to spawn again. since your divider is transparent. it is common for the female to kill her own brood to seduce the male.
if you want to successful spawn . keep the females and male in seperate tank after spawning. add top level dither to diverse her attention and induce her motherhood.

[gummynut]

Dream lifestyle....

i think it should be 'double trouble'

[theodore]

joopsg (Henry):

I expected the same behaviour as well. The weird thing is that the 'better mom' continued to mind her fries despite the acts of the adulterous pair (male + 'bad mom') on the other side of the transparent divider.

The 'bad mom' ate up all the eggs within a day after I moved the male to the community tank. The male was nowhere near the tank then.

I guess it's ok for now. I'll be going on a trip soon and the last thing I want is to come back to a tank full of starved fries.

[joopsg]

Theodore, need not to worry. the fries will never go hungry one. they can feed on the micro-organisms on the plants. moreover I have seen female apistogramma siftimng food into finer particles for her fries

[theodore]

Well, I did lose a few batches of german rams last year due to trips. Just when I finally kept 10+ juveniles alive, I lost almost all my lifestock in a CO2 disaster - Otos were the only ones that survived!

In fact, I bought my agassizii 'Tefe' because nice German rams are nowhere to be found these days.

[joopsg]

You can ask biotope to get for you. they are are quite good.
used to get them from H2O. but now they seems like doing only equipment.
they were going for $5 per piece.

[illumnae]

c328's german rams are quite good too

[theodore]

I saw a pair 2+ weeks ago but they are a bit too old for my liking.

I got these from Toh a long while back and couldn't find something quite as good (and cheap) since...

[joopsg]

well teo has stopped doing rams .
So now got to depend on C328 and biotope to get them.
of course with a higher price tag, well its up to individual for the passion of their fish.

[doppelbanddwarf]

Y618 does occasionally bring in pretty good specimens too. Most of the time kept in small betta tanks like the Apistos there.

[theodore]

Opps, we have digressed... Let's hope the mods dun kill my thread because of it

In any case, I no longer have space or time for rams now. I'll probably hunt for another pair of agassizii 'Tefe' (preferably a different colour morph) and just focus on just this. Apistos seem to produce less fries (20 to 40) compared to rams (50 to 100+) so it suits my current lifestyle a little better.

[joopsg]

if not all apistogramma produced small number of eggs, its how you condition the female. some species can lay up top 50- 70 eggs.