Bacteria

[torque6]

Don't understand why people will buy something off the shelves ...
Even if you have the spare cash, don't splurge unnecessarily.

Many a times in this forum, if you've noticed is that when people ask for opinions on whether a particular product is good, people who have never used the product at all will suggest something they would like to have, thus defeating the purpose of acquiring a product through user experienced recommendation.

The bacteria in the bottle on the market to some degree caters for individuals who wish to kick start their nitrogen process while keeping fauna at the same time. There has been test made using seachem stability to reduce casualties for new tank syndrome. When i first started out, i didnt have a planted tank, which is why after reading the article and understanding it really works, i went ahead to get them.

Its only recently when Peter highlighted that nitrogen cycle doesnt apply to a planted tank did it occurred to me that as long as your fauna waste doesnt exceed the plants uptake of NH4, you will have no issues.

[limsteel]

If I am saying this product is no good without using it, I am guilty But like I stated and now iterate Bacteria is everywhere why wanna buy something in a bottle when it is already everywhere?

I have bought Ocean free bacteria 5000 8000 or 10,000, can't remember, when I first started out. Later migrating to 4ft, and now 5ft, I have not use bottled bacteria and I don;t have any issue. SO? My tank doesn't need it.

Nitro cycle is essential, peter stated cycling planted tank is not necessary as NH3/4 can already be utilised directly by plants further confirms that this kind of product is again not essential...

Even if you have a bare tank, isn't a mature filter wool (with seasoned & experienced bacteria) from another tank far more effective and cost effective then Bottled bacteria (just graduated from factory)? Come get from me FOC, I have at least 5 ltr in volume every 1 or 2 months.

Peter point out no O2 in the bottle. So in theory, the anaerobic bacteria will take over the bottle after production. Adding them into O2 Rich water what happens to the anaerobic bacteria? bacteria in suspended animation

By not giving reasonable feedback and letting newbie to keep buying something not essential. Is this what you want?

Thank you guys for all your inputs, I bought a bottle of Bacterialife and replace the filter media to Eheim Substrat Pro, and finally I have crystal clear water now.

Bro, Did it occurred to you that it might be your Eheim Substrat Pro doing the job?

[AquaObsession]

I love the discussion here. Yes, there are many ways to kick start your nitrogen cycle. I simply add some food and leave it to decay and use a used filter from another tank. Others buy bacterial or use old filters or use liquid bacterial or use ADA products or the many other brands, use 'hardy' fish (poor fishes )

Anything that works for you is great. As long as you get your tank cycle.

I would just like to point out. Anyone is free to question, to go into details, as much details as he wants, as long as he is backing his explanation with facts. If one disagree, then come forward and prove yours work really in the way it is being marketed.

[Quixotic]

This is beginners' corner. So the assumption is that the thread starter may very well be someone not so experienced in the hobby.

Therefore, he/she may not necessarily be equipped with the knowledge about what goes on with the bacteria/nitrogen cycle. Even experienced aquarists can be found wanting in the understanding of nitrogen cycle.

Arguments about bottled bacteria products aside, it may also be better to focus on the thread starter's undertanding of nitrogen cycle, instead of just saying, "xxx works", "yyy doesn't work" etc.

However, I have also read articles that said the same thing that PeterGwee said, in that nitrifying bacteria cannot survive any form of drying/preservation process.

ilumnae, are these articles available on the Internet, or are these printed materials? If available, can you kindly share the links?

Peter point out no O2 in the bottle. So in theory, the anaerobic bacteria will take over the bottle after production. Adding them into O2 Rich water what happens to the anaerobic bacteria? bacteria in suspended animation

Very interesting, is this based on personal opinion or some scientific dissertation? If this was something you read on the Internet, could you kindly share the links as well? Thanks.

[limsteel]

Arguments about bottled bacteria products aside, it may also be better to focus on the thread starter's undertanding of nitrogen cycle, instead of just saying, "xxx works", "yyy doesn't work" etc.

My arguement is no point buying when they are all around us, Not they don't work... Am I being defensive

Very interesting, is this based on personal opinion or some scientific dissertation? If this was something you read on the Internet, could you kindly share the links as well? Thanks

No this base on my logic No ref to speak of for my deduction. but can refer to thoery LOW O2 environment promotes anaerobic bacteria growth while the aerobic bacteria can't survive.

[Quixotic]

My arguement is no point buying when they are all around us, Not they don't work... Am I being defensive

Well, your phrasing does rub me off that way, but that is just my personal opinon, no offence intended.

It is no point because you understood the nitrogen cycle and you don't need it. If I were to perform frequent water changes without treatment, wash my filter materials pretty often, have a high bioload and can't grow plants for nuts, would the product be good for me (if it works), or is there absolutely no point (financially aside)?

[illumnae]

ilumnae, are these articles available on the Internet, or are these printed materials? If available, can you kindly share the links?

I think I got these off the internet some time ago when I was doing some research on bottled bacteria. I'll try to find the links when I get home from work tonight

edit:

Here's some links, though i do note that some of the links do come from manufacturers of other products, so take it with a slight pinch of salt if you want

http://www.wallaquariums.com/cycling.htm

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q3627177487u8338/ (you need to buy this article, but the google synopsis said this: "...of nitrifying bacteria in air-dried litter maintained at a normal. temperature for more than one year. Nitrifying bacteria will not. survive the drying up ...")

http://www.virtualviz.com/ammonia.htm

http://greenfinproducts.com/Documents/NITRIFYING%20BACTERIA.doc

http://www.bioconlabs.com/bacteval.html

The general thrust of these seems to be that nitrifying bacteria does not produce spores and as such cannot be dried and resold. What's being sold as bottled bacteria is "sludge removing bacteria" or other bacteria that does remove ammonia, but at a very inefficient rate and with side effects (e.g one of the articles said that if the conditions are right, the bacteria can reverse the process and convert nitrates back to ammonia). What these products do is act as a temporary solution using other bacteria until true nitrifying bacteria is established in the filter. However, i think that "sludge removing bacteria" would probably be useful in breaking down solid wastes and keeping the water crystal clear (similar to ADA Clear Super perhaps?)

Disclaimer: this is just what my research turned up and i am in no way saying that this is the absolute truth, just something that i believe in.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/ar.../t-226858.html

[DanGoh59]

This is a really interesting posting which triggers a whole new chain
of thoughts on set practice. To me, beneficial bacteria together with
a good water conditioner are one of the key elements to maintaining
a healthy aquarium, planted or not. This was the mantra that was
preached consistently especially for setting up new tanks.

Peter's presentation is logical and thought provoking.

I'm sharing an article I found on the web that basically elaborates what
Peter's stand on beneficial bacteria in a bottle.

http://www.firsttankguide.net/bacteria.php

I have not decided which way to go but this is what makes the forum
interesting.

[torque6]

Dan,
thanks for the reference. I guess Keith does have a valid point. Which again could hint my bad spree of bga growth could be a result of using a nearing expired bottled bacteria, but either case there is no hard evidence and only through an extensive test would we know the results.