Good Base Fert an Alternative to Liquid Fert?

[geoffrey]

Hi Guys,

Given that plants can uptake their nutrients thru roots, would it be possible to sustain a tank of plants with a very good and thick base fert without further supplement of liquid fert at all?

[juggler]

That would be Diana's style, right? And she would even dig up soil from her garden as base fert.

I believe what you say is possible. But you would still need to add some K from time to time. Other nutrients can come from fish food.

[CK Yeo]

Yes. Lots of people do it here.
But I find it potentially very messy, especially if you re-scape very often.

ck

[PeterGwee]

Well...it kinda boils down to what plants you plan to grow...some have weak roots which will probably be better at absorbing nutrients through its leaves and thus the use of liquid fertilizer is necessary. []

[chia2k]

does the denerelle range of products like the E15 count as fert ? coz i haven add a single liquid fert but have been adding those iron tablets , vitamin every water change

[PeterGwee]

Yup..those are consider as liquid fertilizer...

[FC]

Hi Jeoffrey,

Merry X'mas.

It can be a way like what Diana Walstad did. However, I beleive this method is limited only for slow growers and rooted plants that consume nutrients mainly through their roots. You can easily find the result by not fertilising (liquid) your plants, most stem plants will response in 2 weeks' time.

I do not know why you are looking into this revenue, perhaps for ease of maintenance/cost. If you are serious about it, I would suggest the following:

1) Use substrate heating cable. It would help create convection to bring fish waste nutrients into the substrate.
2) lay the usual recommended amount of base fert; extra thick would not help, it would give rise to fert leak problem, you can add them anytime later anyway. Use a mix of 2 to 3 brands of base fert, use Dupla as one of them, that would give you a good coverage of the nutrients. Mix them with equal amount of substrate.
3) lay 3" of clean substrate over the above.

You cannot totally escape from water nutrients. Like Juggler mentioned, addition of potassium is very helpful. Depending on fish food (dry type) alone may be risky without knowing its' chemistry. Unlike what Diana does, I think water change is helpful too but in smaller amount (15%) and once every 2 weeks. This would help to dilute harmful/excess waste which the plants do not consume and add natural nutrients, would avoid one running into algae problem.

No way that you can use high light for such setup for very simple fact that the water column would run out of balance in nutrients very quickly and end up in poor growth and algae boom.

I hope this help.

Have fun.

[geoffrey]

Yup, Walstad's style.

The reason I am asking is I am considering resetting my BBA infected tank; only if my patience wears out. In the new setup, I intend to use a mixture of JBL and potting soil. Had a lot of success with potting soil in a 2ft I did for a friend.

However, this time around, beside JBL and potting soil, I intend to add a pack of NPK fert (those black coloured soil). Still looking for one with a single digit of P. Top up with thick gravel for slow leaching. I presume with a no liquid nutrients in the water column, algae are less likely to appear. A presumption that I might want to test out.

What do you guys think? Adding NPK risky?

[geoffrey]

----------------
On 12/24/2002 1:47:55 PM

...potentially very messy, especially if you re-scape very often.

ck
----------------

Yup, I must agree with. Plants in the 2ft I did, took root very quickly. And those roots are thick, white and healthy. Had some difficulties pulling them out again after a fortnight.

[bclee]

----------------
On 12/26/2002 9:37:54 AM

Yup, Walstad's style.

The reason I am asking is I am considering resetting my BBA infected tank; only if my patience wears out. In the new setup, I intend to use a mixture of JBL and potting soil. Had a lot of success with potting soil alone in a 2ft I did for a friend.

However, this time around, beside JBL and potting soil, I intend to add a pack of NPK fert (those black coloured soil). Still looking for one with a single digit of P. Top up with thick gravel for slow leaching. I presume with a no liquid nutrients in the water column, algae are less likely to appear. A presumption that I might want to test out.

What do you guys think? Adding NPK risky?
----------------

Geoffrey, personally, I will leave the NPK fert out. Once you put it in that there is no way to take it out without tearing everything apart. If you find that your NPK is out of control, there is nothing you can do.

I feel that adding NPK separately offers you better control over the it.

Those stuff probably contains urea as N source. Potentially dangerous.

BC

[bclee]

A post on the APD for your thoughts.

BC

[tawauboy]

----------------
On 12/26/2002 9:37:54 AM
What do you guys think? Adding NPK risky?
----------------

adding npk is always risky. but you won't be able to gain significantly if you don't risk. i do add horti tabs into my gravel and pushed deep, at least 1.5". so far leaching is minimal. p stayed below 1ppm.

don't know if you found any npk fert with single digit p but you may want to consider mixing crushed horti tabs with potting soil. these tabs are about 2% p. alternatively, why not use root monster as they contain other nutrients needed by plants.

i think if you have an iron and trace element rich substrate, you need not add these into the water column, thus depriving algae some of their essential nutrients. this may help to retard algae growth. i tried injecting iron and trace liquid fertilizer into substrate directly(i have no base fert) and this helps to reduce spot algae growth by about 40%.

[geoffrey]

BC: you were right there, control is the bigger issue. Biggest fear is an accidental over-leaching during replanting.

Tawauboy: Have given horti alot of thoughts too. Looks like your suggestion is a whole lot safer.

Thanks guys.

[talev]

Yes, a rich substrate together with a relatively nutrient poor water column should turn out to be successful. Provided the type of plants you choose are marsh plants which take in nutrients mainly from their soil borne roots.

Your pure aquatic plants like cabomba, limnophilia, and other water borne plants like riccia, wateva mosses, floating plants are likely to suffer.

Please note though, not every nutrient is mainly taken through the roots. The water column requires K, Mg, Ca, and of course C to be present for plant growth (dave huebert, i think).

[FC]

Geoffrey,

You can get the less than 10%PO4 NPK base fert from nearly all NTUC outlet. It is Horti brand. The fert is in pallet form (grey brown colour). I think is only 2%.

Have fun.

[geoffrey]

Talev: Noted for Riccia, I am having them. Anyway, I am not stopping liquid fert totally, it's just dosing will be alot lesser.

FC: Thanks for the lead, will look out for it next time I go buy diapers for my kid.[]

[cks]

i saw that charles @ biotope was using the ada soil. he told me that it has proven to be a very good substrate and i have seen that his plants though 2 weeks old are growing very well . can this be the substrate that we are looking for [albeit] it will only last for two/three years before it disintergrates
i checked with charles also the suitability of mixing the ada soil with lonestar or other substrate however he informed me that it was not advisible. has anyone tried this before ?

[vinz]

cks,

There was a recent thread on ADA soil and it has been discussed a few times in the past. Please do a search... the answer you need may be in the forum already. Feel free to post further questions on the relevant threads.