3ft or 4ft dilemma

[Addie]

Hi,
I'm also scouting for a 4x2x2 tank recently but it has been slow as the total cost is kinda expensive. I would like to seek some help from the experienced aquarists here.

1) One of thing that I don't have good answer is the price of 4x2x2 (10mm) vary from $200 - $400s. Why is such a big variation of price? Is it the workmanship or something else?

2) Anyone have a rough idea of how much will it cost for a custom made cabinet (fully covered at the based)?

3) Is it necessary to have the tank to be "bracketed" at the 4 vertical sides where the silicon joints and strong enough to hold all the weights including lamp hoods? I hope someone know what I'm talking about.

4) I notice my home's temperature will go as high as 31C in a hot day [] Will a fan be able to cool down a 4 footer? Otherwise, it is too hot for the plant and fish (3 otos died yesterday in my 1.5ft when I got home in the evening). Buying a chiller is far too expensive for me right now.

BTW, although I have no experience on bigger tank but I found that 1.5ft tank is very sensitive to the water condition. have been mornitoring it very often...wtih test kits[] but.... luckly the condition is still controllable and plants are doing well []

Apologise for the lengthy message. I hope to get some advice here regarding 4 footer. Thanks.

[hugo]

Hi Addie,

I do not want to be like promoting a place but I recently place a 4'x2'x2 feet tank order at local LFS at pasir ris and it is no where near the price you mentioned. So please look around before you buy, just make sure that you get at least 8mm glass.

[FC]

Dear IRN-BRU and Addie,

Just wish to contribute my experience to you. I had the same cloud in my mind few years ago when I want a bigger tank; same questions 3 or 4 ft?

I am leaning towards 3 even I had asked some old timers who recommended strongly 4 for endless good reasons. I thought I would be happy enough to see a "large" 3 ft in my house. Fortunately, after going through calculations and taking in the advantages into consideration, I am glad that I had chosen 4.

Trust me, when you receive the 4 footer, you will be overjoyed like I had. "Wow, a real and serious fun has just began!". And when I wash & fill in the sand, the water .... wah take so long to do it (compare to my old tiny world), I said to myself:"my plant and fishes, you better be happier". And few months later... they do.

Nowaday, for long stayer, a 4 footer is nearly (or already?) classified as the starter size for aquarium hobby, be it fish only, planted or marine. People who stay long in the hobby craves for ever larger tank for various good reasons and a bigger toy. On a serious note, any aquarium at home is just a puddle of water compare to nature. So, if you want a successful aquarium, you ought to give more justifications to the inhabbitants which includes the plants.

I have some personal opinions that I hope you would consider them seriously:

1) Tha tank's (4ft) glass should be 10mm thick (minimum . DO NOT save that few pennies and risk other's life or your matured tank by a shatter prompt tank. After all, this is going to be your long term friend (it is not your 2 footer where you could move it around easily). There should be bracing on the sides and the centre of the tank (metal brackets are not neccessary for 4 footer). Tips:
a) ask maker to cut 2 holes, on the left & right bracings at the back's corners, to accommodate the filter pipings. The hole size should be big enough for the 16mm hoses.
b) do not be put off by the centre bracing, it would become handy when you do your maintenance; it will transformed into a make-shift table for you!
c) ask maker to install the bracing as high as possible so that you could make full use of the tank's height and for easier matenance (normally we do not fill water at or above the bracing).

2) The tank and the cabinet should be done by reliable maker(s). Remember: a 4x2x2 tank is about 600Kg when fully loaded (about 8 adults' weight). On cabinet, if you decided on ply wood only structure, make sure all 3 walls (the left, right AND ALSO back) are at least 3/4" thick, same applies to the partition wall. All these walls must be directly sitting on the ground to be effective and not sitting on a pre-constructed base which is pretty common on home's cabinets. The compartments (typically 2) should be designed to accomodate the filter (see point 6), the CO2 tank (compartment 1), CO2 reactor, UV light etc. and the rest of the accessories (compartment 2). That would make your hobby tidy. For compartment 2, you may add a mini "balcony" on the door to hold test kits, the other door with hook for your fish nets.

3) Whether a fan is sufficient depends on:
a) size : 4" is a good size
b) whether the fan is designed for pressure or volume priority: choose volume
c) the air flow rate
d) the mounting position

4) Sure, smaller tank is more difficult to maintain a good water. So, start with 4!

5) Lighting & fan mounting. You have to consider the tank width and height for these. For 2ft high is decided, then, 2ft width is the minimum, as higher tank needs more light and therefore mounting space for the lights (and fan).

6) Filter for 4 footer, you may use 2026, 2028 or 2250 (or equivalent). I would go for 2050 as it would help prolong maintenance intervals which you will appreciate it later.

7) Lighting camoflage. One can opt for a crown where it is a removeable (important during maintenance) that sit on the tank's top just to surrround the top equipment. Tips:
a) clown sits should be located on the front and back of tan

[Irn-Bru]

----------------
On 12/5/2002 5:28:04 PM

since you like wood, i like wood too, maybe you would like to consider this. get a carpenter to build you a wall cabinet above the tank, something like upper tier kitchen cabinet. you can install your lights at the base of the cabinet while you can keep fertilizers, chemical and etc in the cabinet. major drawback, you cannot shift the tank location anymore. but you'll get the advantage of keeping 'dangerous stuff' out of reach of children.
----------------

its a big disadvantage not being able to relocate the tank (not that i will be moving it around often)...

the top cabinet will probably increase the water temperature? not advisable right?

[Irn-Bru]

----------------
On 12/5/2002 9:08:25 PM

Hi Addie,

I do not want to be like promoting a place but I recently place a 4'x2'x2 feet tank order at local LFS at pasir ris and it is no where near the price you mentioned. So please look around before you buy, just make sure that you get at least 8mm glass.
----------------

what shop is this? is yours a customised tank? how much har?

[loupgarou]

cost is not a factor?

go for the biggest tank: eg:
6ft open top
lighting = 2 or 3x MH lighting (more cost effective over 2 years)
chiller
2 x 2028
full seachem fluorite substrate (don't need basefert.) with 50% gravel mix.

[Irn-Bru]

Hi FC,

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts & experience!

What's this bracing on the sides that you are referring to?
as in additional glass connectors?

UV lights? never dealt with them before? what's it for? absolutely necessary?

how to choose volume priority fans?

as for crown (or i prefer to call it the top frame), think NA's design has the lights sitting on it... the crown cannot be removed without first removing the lights... bad design?

in your case, the lights will sit on the tank itself? and requiring a stand?

many thanks!

[Addie]

Hi FC,

Thank you very much for your info and tips. These are really valuable information to consider prior to buy a 4 footer[:] Bottom line, it is still a heavy investment and I agreed with you that it must be of good quality and suitable for use of planted tank such as cutting holes to allow filter pipings. So, I must save up first! hehe

I will make full use of your advice while checking out the tank, etc.

Hi hugo,
I'm staying in Pasir Ris too. I asked one of the LFS here and it was close to $400-500 for a bare tank. [:0]

[sherchoo]

----------------
On 12/5/2002 4:33:14 PM

Get a carpenter to make one for you.

Sherwin, I thot IOS = Internal Overflow Sump. Correct me if I'm wrong.
----------------

Vinz,
You're rite.... this always ahppens when you're trying to post and at the same time looking over your shoulder (check if boss is coming by your place). lol

[Irn-Bru]

----------------
On 12/6/2002 12:28:42 AM

cost is not a factor?

go for the biggest tank: eg:
6ft open top
lighting = 2 or 3x MH lighting (more cost effective over 2 years)
chiller
2 x 2028
full seachem fluorite substrate (don't need basefert.) with 50% gravel mix.


----------------

i meant "ASSUMING cost is not a factor"...
hope my Finance Minister doesn't read this...

the idea is not to go for something outrageous (dun mind, can't think of another suitable word) but its just to allow me to put more ideas into practice... i simply cannot imagine having a 6ft tank in my livingroom...

i have seen setups of MH in the forum... too complicated & elaborate for me... not very pleasing to the eye too... BUT i am reading everywhere that its more cost effective... how true is this????

2x2028 for a 4ft or 6ft?
i suppose your MH suggestion is also for a 6ft?

[juggler]

----------------
On 12/5/2002 1:57:40 PM

----------------

On 12/5/2002 1:23:32 PM


lighting is an issue with 3' tank. available from lfs but at a price. 4' on the other hand is mass market item, a lot cheaper and easily available.

----------------

you hit the sweet spot my fren... 4ft it is then...

i just hope i don't regret this...


i'm reaaally eyeing NA type tanks but does not like the top design where the lights are exposed... prefer it to have a taller frame to keep the lights out of sight... already trying very hard to convince Chan to customised the top for me but he just wouldn't budge... any suggestions?


----------------

BTW - 2 x 36W PL lights can fit in a 3ft tank.

But I still like a 4 ft tank. It seems to be the most value for money. 3ft tank would cost about close to 4ft. And 5ft and bigger tanks cost lots more than a 4ft.

As for dimensions, width is more impt to me than height. 2ft wide is better so you can plant more stuff. Height can be 1.5 ft to 2 ft. Higher means more light needed.

Good luck, Joe.

[FC]

Hi Irn-Bru & Addie,

You are most welcome, I just hope that I do not give you guys any wrong advises or miss out any pointers, I tried to take your investments as serious as possible.

"What's this bracing on the sides that you are referring to?
as in additional glass connectors?quot;
-Yes.

"UV lights? never dealt with them before? what's it for? absolutely necessary?quot;
-It is often connected at the water output of an external filter where the filtered water enters the UV lamp housing. The UV lamp will then steralise the water and then return the disinfected water into the tank.
-It prevent/cure green water and bacterial boom, very useful for new tank.
-Iesult in clear and good quality water.
-It will not kill 100% of the bacteria/green water but good enough to control them.
-Important: get the one with at least 11 watts UV lamp.

"how to choose volume priority fans?quot;
-Most of the fan in the market is volume priority.
-The difference is in the fan blade design and the coil used.
-Tip: go to a shop (eg Sim Lim Tower) where they have various brands, test them and take the one with the strongest wind.
-Tip: for mounting of the fan (4&quot, you can get it from NA.

"as for crown (or i prefer to call it the top frame), think NA's design has the lights sitting on it... the crown cannot be removed without first removing the lights... bad design?quot;
-Yes, bad design. Proper use of top frame for beautifying the tank by coverying those top equipment.

"in your case, the lights will sit on the tank itself? and requiring a stand?quot;
-Yes, absolutely. The idea is to place the lamp as close to the water surface as possible. By doing that, the tank would look more low profile (not wearing a tall hat).
-when you place the lamps in future (I think you probably need 6x 36watts), if possible, put them close together and direct them to high light plants. In this way, your cooling fan would be able to do its' job best, that is, blowing cool air accross all the lamps evenly and exhaust out heated.


I hope this help.

Have fun.

[sherchoo]

----------------
On 12/6/2002 4:19:40 AM

As for dimensions, width is more impt to me than height. 2ft wide is better so you can plant more stuff. Height can be 1.5 ft to 2 ft. Higher means more light needed.

Good luck, Joe.
----------------

To me I would prefer a taller tank. Taller tanks would allow me to plant taller plants and also have more room forplants to grow. With lower tank, maitenance will be more frequent as plants will overgrow relative fast.

Having a wide tank has it's advantage too if you're going for the 'vast' look. It's all pretty much depends on the look you want. If not sure, juz go for the ?X2X2.

[FC]

I agree with Sherchoo.

If you have very short hand, then go for 22" high (do not go below this). NA has nice looking short tank and cabinet but they are meant more for easy maintenance (need no stools). However, no one wish to be limited by the tank height and cabinet height for 2 reasons:

1) like what Scherchoo mentioned, on the plant selection and plant height. It is also important to allow tall plants to grow to certain height/duration before trimming them, otherwise, they may be weaken with each trim.

2) space for CO2 tank and filter. Bigger CO2 tank is prefered for extended time before filling and more economical in the long run. A 2028, a popular choice, is quite tall. So, the cabinet's INTERNAL (space) height need to be at least 22" high. Unless otherwise, you are prepared to leave them outside which would then defeat the purpose of having cabinet (as a need storer and beautifier).

Think...


Have fun.

[Dreamgarden]

Me going to upgrade my 3ft to 4ft soon, and plan for a 4ft X 2ft(width) X 60cm(height) tank. The idea to have a high tank is to make sure most tall plants will not touch the water surface.

Can anybody advice whether 60cm is to high for PL light to penetrate? Or is the 4ft X 2ft X 2ft a better option?

[coryfav]

er, dreamgarden, i just woke up from a nap but... isn't 2ft and 60cm the same?

[Dreamgarden]

Oops, typo error. I meant 70cm in height.

[FC]

Dear DG,

I guess you are trying to be funny?!?!

The addition of 10cm height is going to cost you too much to justify it. Reason being that instead of using just a standard 4ft x 8ft glass to make a 4x2x2, you would need and extra piece just for the 10 cm. That's why the most economical size is 4x2x2. If you wish to have a higher tank, then go for 4x2.5x2.5 or better still 5 or 6 x 2.5 x 2.5 instead.

Lighting for a 2.5 ft high would need more consideration. One would properly need a JBJ type with 3 FL tubes in one housing to get the intensity and 3 sets.

Have fun.

[sherchoo]

DG,
I was considering to make the exact same dimension as mentioned. The extra 10cm was for the substrate right? Anyway, after getting quotes for that dimension, I decided to get the 4X2X2 instead. Not worth the $$$.

I would recommend 2ft high tank as it's already quite difficult to reach the bottom now, can't imagine if it's 2.5ft tall.

[FC]

Hi Sherchoo,

Recently, I had learnt an interesting and effective way to clean the glass's algae...without getting your hand wet...and in less than half the time!

$1 for this tip.[]
So with n viewers....not bad
(kidding)

Clue: the trick is in the cleaning media, you will be surprised. It would not even scratch the glass like those green scotch wools which create algae anchoring grooves on the glass. Forget the old credit cards & tri-square.

Think...