Fish suggestions for pond

[DazzleDiscus]

Hello everyone! I havn't been on in a long time... busy with life in general.

ok. I have a 500gal pond stocked with a lotus, a few water lilies, native marginal plants, a whole bunch of some type of fine-leaved submerged aquatic plant I picked up from local ponds two years ago, pickeral rush, and water hyacinth.

I want fish that can survive the winter (I live in Virginia- boarderline between zone 6 and 7. Temperatures can get down into the teens. I keep an area free of ice during winter so that gas exange can freely take place. A very big portion of the pond is three feet deep. I've kept bluegill, perch, and sunfish in there before, but gave them away when they kept attacking my lilies. They didn't eat them- just chewed them up and spit the pieces out... to float around... and annoy me.

Koi will get too big (in my opinion) for this pond and I'm wary about goldfish in general because I don't want them to completely destroy my submerged plants. I don't mind if they nibble on them- but I don't want to have to add more underwater plants later on.

I was thinking about US native shiners (namely the "whitefinned" yellowfin shiner Notropis lutipinnis) Also maybe I can catch one of those hundreds of darters that live about an hour away from me... I'm still looking for a site or store that sells the shiners and I'm not going to the river for a while. So I'll be looking at the normal bland selection for a while... *shudder*

So any suggestions? I was looking at the fantails cause they only get (supposably) 6inches long. or maybe the Red and White Ryukin ("8inches"). I don't know much about goldfish- as they are nasty filthy critters, get extremely long, and devour a beautifully planted tank in a matter of seconds. (I'll let my opinion show if you don't mind too much...

Does anyone know if any tetras or gouramis or killifish or .. or ... ANYTHING else can survive VA winters? When ever I go to the local fish stores around here I just get pointed to the goldfish section.
Do you know if cloud minnows can survive freezing temperatures?

I'm going to put a pair of gouramis or bettas or some aquarium fish in the pond next spring for them to breed so that it'll be different. I have 4 female guppies and a female betta in there now... just cause I don't have anything else. I won't add any males cause I don't have indoor tanks ready for them or their young. That will come next year. So I've been searching the internet for more info, but it seems that it is hard to come by. I'd appreciate any comments/suggestions/anything. Thanks!
-Dazzle

[DazzleDiscus]

I did some research earlier today and came across a cool looking goldfish called a Tamasaba or Sabao. Another kind that was interesting was Wakin. Does anyone here know about them? I couldn't find much info on them and wether or not they would eat plants. Thanks

[Quixotic]

Coldwater fish are rather uncommon here, so some of us would be hard pressed to recommend any.

Not sure about Tamasaba or Sabao, but when it comes to goldfish, I would tend to think that they will gobble up everything and anything.

There was a discussion sometime ago about this fish, which is deeply etched in my memory due to said ability to tolerate a wide range of temperature. Does Macropodus ocellatus sound good to you? However, I think it is rather rare in the trade, so you may have trouble getting them.

[DazzleDiscus]

! Wow! When I first saw the picture I was shocked at how a paradise gourami could be so beautiful! I don't believe I have seen a picture of M. ocellatus before. I looked them up, and seems that the most used common name is called Roundtail Paradisefish. That name doesn't seem to do it justice does it? I'll do some more research on them. Meanwhile, I looked up the more common paradise fish and found that one website listed them as a good pond fish... course they didn't say what to do for winter. Sound's like I'll be doing some experimenting...

I gave up Wakin, Tamasaba, and Sabao goldfish because after doing more research I found that they either get too big (about the size of koi) or they will devour water lilies with a vengence. I'll be getting some White Cloud Mountain Minnows (sorry don't know the scientific/Latin name) to see if they will survive the winter. I won't get the "fancy" long tailed strains. They aren't as pretty nor as hardy as the normal ones. Also, I'll probably get three fantail goldfish- I've read that they do well overwintering in ponds over here and that they won't destroy water plants.

Do you know how I can tell the difference between male/female goldfish? I'd like to get them to breed if possible.

[bryan]

Don't ever trust goldfish with plants no matter what breed they are.

[DazzleDiscus]

So true! If they do end up eating all the submerged plants I could always put the American vals in there...

[Quixotic]

I'll be getting some White Cloud Mountain Minnows (sorry don't know the scientific/Latin name) to see if they will survive the winter.

Tanichthys albonubes, should be tolerant of winter weather.

Do you know how I can tell the difference between male/female goldfish? I'd like to get them to breed if possible.

http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html

[bryan]

Paradise fish are found in southeast China where the average temperature is about 15deg C. I remember seeing them left in the open at the fish market in Hongkong in Winter so I guess they are pretty tough.

[DazzleDiscus]

thankyou all for your input! I'm doing some more research on the paradise gourami and white clouds... as well to see if I really do want to add a fantail goldfish. I may have to put in a heater for the winter because the temperatures get into the teens here during winter. I'd rather not spend the electricity. I'm still poking around. I'm pretty surprised though to here that the paradise gouramis can survive harsh temperatures. I've read some pretty interesting stories relating to them.

[DazzleDiscus]

I went to the petstore on my way home today from shopping and bought six white clouds (the last one's mouth was injured. looked like he'd been that way for a while. It had healed up though). I'll catch all but a few and keep them inside for the winter. If the ones I leave survive the winter, Great! If not, then I'll either keep them in the pond during the summer months or I might get a pond heater.

They are doing very well. After a few minutes getting adjusted to the pond, I fed them a bit of flakes and they eagerly ate them. I also bought a small white and red ryukin goldfish. Another experiment. If he eats my lilies, then he goes to my friend. If not, then he can stay as long as he wants!

The store didn't have any paradise gouramis. They don't sell them so I'll look around.