Time to move on - advice needed

**illumnae** · 26th Jul 2008, 00:46

As some of you may know (and a few have been very annoyed by it

), I have been a very loyal supporter of Gex substrate and EI dosing for the past year or so. I still firmly believe that these are 2 of the most effective means of maintaining a planted tank, but circumstances have forced me to move on and I'm now in search of alternatives. My next venture is a 4x2x2 planted discus/altum tank. My hope is to have a small group of wild heckels or altums, failing which I'll keep a group of domesticated discus instead.

For the substrate, light coloured surroundings are better for discus, and for the wild heckels/altums a sandy substrate is best for them. Hence, I've decided to go with the light coloured sand that has arrived at c328 lately as my substrate.

For water column fertilization, my work schedule doesn't allow me to do the weekly 50% water changes that EI mandates. Not to mention, water bills are a consideration as well.

I'm thus looking for advice as to what I should use for my tank in terms of fertilization. I'll need base fert under the sand and liquid ferts to supplement. The lighting I'm using is a 4 tube t5ho lightset from DELightings (~2WPG but with individual reflectors) and I have pressurized CO2 with a solenoid. The tank will thus be a high tech one. However, the tank will not be fully planted but have a mostly bare foreground with some highlight plants interspersed.

I've considered ferka, but I haven't been able to find very good reviews on ferka's base fert. The base fert also looks a little "insubstantial" as it seems to be just a small pack of powder. Even buying the 4x280g pack, I'm not sure if it'll be much more than a thin dusting on the base of the tank. Further, it seems that Ferka ferts are devoid of N and P, which I think means they subscribe to the old school of thought that N and P cause algae. Being a supporter of EI, that rings alarm bells in my head, as limiting N and P seem to be a surefire way to induce algae. That being said, ferka is attractive as it's an affordable all-in-one brand. (Side note: Aquashade contains N and P, would ferka aquabase, aquashade and Balance-K work in tandem for a high tech tank?)

The other brand I'm looking at is jbl. I've read very good reviews about jbl base fert, but not much about their liquid fert series. Their liquid fert seems also to be slightly on the pricier side, if I get both the normal and the trace liquids. Like ferka, their liquid ferts seem to be devoid of N and P as well and rings the same alarm bells. I've considered using wondergro with jbl, but as wondergro seems to be formulated off EI, I'd be stuck with the same labourous weekly water changes.

I've heard dennerle works very well, but it's well beyond my budget.

ADA...well, my feelings about ADA are pretty well known

Besides, the complete ADA system works with their soil, and I'm going to be using sand and not soil, which puts this system out of consideration as well.

With all these in mind, can anyone suggest something that would work for my situation? I'd appreciate any and all advice, especially if you can share your experience with any of the above ferts I've been considering (e.g. does the full ferka system work well without inducing algae due to lack of N and P? or is ferka aquabase a good substantial base fert despite seeming so sparse? etc...) Thanks in advance!

**tcy81** · 26th Jul 2008, 01:07

well, for the base fertiliser as you have mention you can use JBL base fertiliser as it is quite well reviewed.
as usual you can add root monster in the base.

For liquid fert, i think Azoo planted liquid fertiliser are quite good.
Or you can also try Ototto brand.

By the way, any picture of the sand you are using ?

Hope to see your new scape soon.

**benny** · 26th Jul 2008, 22:40

Ferka is not cheap, but I find the effects to be very good. My Cryptocoryne parva lawn is actually growing quite well because of it. The old leaves have now been replaced with submersed leaves already. Perhaps I will update the old parva thread when I have the time.

Cheers,

**illumnae** · 26th Jul 2008, 23:11

thanks for the feedback Chee Yong and benny

I am tempted to try ferka because it's a 1 brand solution, but i'm just afraid of whether limiting N and P would cause algae breakout. Anyone who's used the complete system before can feedback please? =)

Chee Yong, do a search in marketplace for threads created by leeruisheng. the sand he was looking to sell recently is what I'm intending to use

**tcy81** · 26th Jul 2008, 23:34

Actually i did use before the tropica Aqua care system. Their new liquid fertilizer includes N & P.
My personal feel is, the base fertiliser is just ok only.

But i think not much people actually used it.

**torque6** · 27th Jul 2008, 04:04

illumnae, your title abit misleading... move on usually means "quitting the hobby"

, fortunately its not so as if it were really the case....the community would have lost a valuable aquascape contributor.

phew

**illumnae** · 28th Jul 2008, 17:22

thanks for compliments torque6, i'm just another hobbyist like yourself and everyone else on this forum

Still looking for feedback especially from users of Ferka Aquabase or JBL Aquabasis. Is water supplementation needed for high tech? How long would the base last, is it about 3 years as I remember reading somewhere?

Hopefully lorba will see this thread and share some of his expertise with the ferka system

**wynx** · 28th Jul 2008, 19:00

I am a user of Ferka Aquabase. But I have to admit that my system is a hybrid one, ferka aquabase + ADA Power Sand, Bacter 100, Super Clear, Tourmaline BC, Penac W.... and using ADA soil as the substrate.

I am glad to report that the tank is running nicely, without any algae, touch wood! I am also using Ferka Aquatilizer and Balance K. My plants are responding nicely to them now..My E.Tennellus is fast and thick now...and crypts are nice too.

Of course, the best thing is, algae are kept in check so that's a good sign for me now...

**illumnae** · 28th Jul 2008, 19:10

thanks for your feedback wynx

glad to hear that your tank is going very well and algae-free (that's very important!

). I was thinking of going hybrid system (base fert + Gex soil + DIY ada base) too, but as wild discus/altums do seem to prefer a sandy base, I had to shelve that idea and stick with base fert + sand.

One thing I'm very worried about, as mentioned before, is the lack of N and P. I believe in a hybrid system, the N and P are provided by the ADA/Gex soil. This isn't present in the sand + base fert system though, hence I was thinking of how water supplementation can make up for that. I think the aquatilizer doesn't have N and P, and the aquashade only has small amounts of it, hence my dilemma.

At the moment i'm thinking (on top of ferka/jbl base fert) of perhaps either going higher bioload/feeding (for N) and KH2PO4 (for P) on top of the ferka series, or modifying a regime of wondergro micro/macro plus so that I don't have to do weekly water changes.

**Panut** · 28th Jul 2008, 19:34

How do you plant with a sand substrate? inert?

**torque6** · 28th Jul 2008, 21:08

Originally Posted by illumnae

Still looking for feedback especially from users of Ferka Aquabase or JBL Aquabasis. Is water supplementation needed for high tech? How long would the base last, is it about 3 years as I remember reading somewhere?

Hopefully lorba will see this thread and share some of his expertise with the ferka system

base fert usually last 2 years, but depends on plant growth as well.

**illumnae** · 28th Jul 2008, 21:59

i'll be supplenting with some liquid ferts as well. Hopefully that'll prolong the life of the base. For now, i'm leaning towards JBL base with some additives (peat + diy ada base) and a modified wondergro regime. hopefully i won't be lacking N and P

**WaterH2O** · 5th Aug 2008, 12:26

I am user of JBL Aquabase with lapis sand with 3x weekly dose of Lushgrow Macro,Micro and KH2PO4 stock. So far, the plants are growing except with a small thingy problem, my E.tennulus seems to be shedding leaves and tends to uproot themselves which I believe it is due to my lighting and not due to the the substrate.

**illumnae** · 20th Sep 2008, 00:49

I'm back! Gonna do a rescape/resubstrate of my office tank soon and am again drawn to the Ferka line. Will be trying Aquatilizer + BalanceK + Aquabase. Is the rosetta/stemma a requirement if using these 3? Or are they optional with benefits?

**illumnae** · 3rd Oct 2008, 14:43

Rescape done. On lorba's recommendation i got Aquatilizer + Balance K + AquaShade and will be dosing all 3. Does anyone know for 250ml bottles of the above, is 1 pump = 1ml, 2ml or 5ml?

**wynx** · 3rd Oct 2008, 14:50

Originally Posted by illumnae

Rescape done. On lorba's recommendation i got Aquatilizer + Balance K + AquaShade and will be dosing all 3. Does anyone know for 250ml bottles of the above, is 1 pump = 1ml, 2ml or 5ml?

Measure it! I know for the 1 litre pack ones...1 cup full is approximately 10ml.