How to add sand/stone or wood inside tank?

[psp1000]

Hi all, i already set up my tank (fish in but bare tank). Just curious, if at this stage where tank already running with fishes inside, can i still add in sand/stone or wood? if I add in will it affect the fishes ? Iam keeping discus now, so far it a bare tank. will like to add in more stuff to make the tank look nice and not so bare. What type of stone/sand or wood is more suitable?

Information of my tank is 4ft tank...with about 10 discus in, 10 tigar blub

Any advice from those experience bros/sis here?

[raglan]

many peopple add sand, as I did.
ultimately I found it not to be a clean substrate, and swiotched to pebble size gravel.

A thin layer, only one or two stones deep, and you find that all the poop that used to dissolve into the water column is trapped and kept sheltered until you can remove it with siphon,

much cleaner for the water,

[psp1000]

Errr..what u mean by that huh? so can i still add when there is already fish in tank? ....thank for advice as newbie in this cos need to ask more and sotong. Always have bare tank so now found it too awfully bare

[raglan]

I went with bare tank because everyone says it is cleaner, even strongly advised ( in the case of young discus, they sometimes say that ) , but I found that the poop was getting dissolved into the water, though some did get vacuumed out.
Then I tried fine sand as a good hygienic substrate, but actually poop stayed on top and dissolved both into the water and broke up into the sand.
The larger, rounded gravel is very good for hygiene if you vacuum it often.
So yes, you can add substrate such as gravel or sand later...easy to put in a cup or so at a time ( well rinsed or it will give off dust . and make sure the gravel is not hot or cold from rinsing when you put it in ).

Dave

[psp1000]

Thank for the good advice, ya it true, most of them will say keeping discus it best to have it in bare tank, but too bare look awful, especially when you can all the poo at the below of the tank....

was thinking of adding some sand or soil that i can convert it into a low tech plan tank, like no co2 needs or no fert need. is it possible? if yes, can guide me into doing it? like what type of soil is best for it? Cos like you sand, sand not that good cos make the water dirty too. ADA soil? or ??

[raglan]

The only time I had a full planted tank that worked for me was when I used reverse undergravel flter driven by powerhead pumping water up through the gravel and toward the intake of the pump,. which had a prefilter on it. the tank was heavily stocked.

that under gravel filter stayed clean underneath for a year, and the plants did anchor into the filter, but it still worked fine. Not a landscape beauty, but full of plants that thrived...some algae too, but there were plants !
Algae on anubias and so on, but they still grew.

disadvantage is that the gravel should be about the same height all over;
If it is much thicker in some spots, water just will go out where there is a thinner layer of gravel, and dirt will accumulate in the high piles of gravel. the gravel that seemed best was not too small.

However, my answer is skewed because I never had much planted tank experience this just happened to work for me.

[psp1000]

oic..guess i got no choice but just stay on with the bare tank for the time being le. haiz... or maybe just add in few graval (stone) for the base and a wood bah..make it simple but still not so bare. I only using canister filter and air stone.

[beetroot]

Hi there, I would like to learn too, psp1000 hope you don't mind, I'm asking questions tagging to your thread, hehe... .

But I'm keeping shrimps, in 3 bare tanks too only with "water grass" (oops don't know what to call them) and brown leaf (the type used by fish shop). So yesterday I just added wood tied with moss and nana plants into the tanks. So far, they are doing OK, but not sure if the new additions have affected them. One of the shrimplets is dying, and I can't spot the rest. Hope they are just hiding.

If I add in gravels (to hide the poo poo), how do I do it? Do I need to remove the shrimps (or fish in psp1000's case) first, and let the gravels settle in the water for a few days? Or just add in and put the shrimps/fish back in at the same time?

[beetroot]

Haha psp1000, just saw your reply. Most likely I will end up like you too.. still having quite a bare tank with some wood and a few pebbles only.

To make it simple, right?

So much to learn!!

[psp1000]

beetroot haha ya lor, saw others bros here with so nice plant tank, even now want to start a low tech tank with no co2 and fert needed also hard to start...worst , now my tank all with fish already, want to start also hard..haix...guess will just buy some stone and a woods bah..haix...sianz..

[beetroot]

Hehehe... think you can. maybe just start a brand new tank ... slowly. And then slowly transfer your fishes over .

[psp1000]

aiyo..mine is a 4ft canibet tank...how to start brand new tank ? haix....think no choice just live with it lor. Maybe added in stone(or ada sand when I read more about how to add in) and plus a big wood bah...that the best i can do so far now since all fishes already added in and run for month le..haix.

[beetroot]

some fish enthusiasts keep more than 1 tank .

well, first casualty for me , an adult sakura died. really think it is because of the wood that i added into the tank (affected water condition??). so hope it goes well for you. good luck!

[fisherw]

I have added to my substrate. In my case, I did not start with a bare tank but found my substrate was too shallow for plants. I use only lapis so lots easier. Would guess it is not possible if you are thinking of fert layer or other finer substrate.

What I did was to ensure as much of the finer sand-like stuff was removed. I did it by swirling the lapis in a pail until the finer stuff was floating/suspended in the water and then poured out the water with suspended sand. Did it many times until the water was reasonably clear. I read somewhere that an alternative method is using a colander (a bowl with tiny holes; my mum uses one to wash her vegetables) but you need one with holes just slightly smaller than what you are washing. I was too lazy to go scout for one. Also can't imagine testing the size of the holes at the shops and angering the shopkeeper. Wash the lapis in the colander and the finer sand will be washed out leaving you with particles bigger than the holes.

Then I poured the lapis in without using the stuff right at the bottom (to avoid the sandy bits). Did not cloud the water at all. Just ended up with some on the plants which was easily taken care of. No casualties.

I think it should not be a problem with fishes although shrimps could end up being buried unless you poured in small amounts at a time.

Hope this helps.

[Verminator]

I believe you've shot yourself in the foot by going bare tank with Discus right from the off. Adding any substrate (unless its standard 'pea' gravel) is going to cause great a great big mess, possibly even killing your discuss (extreme scenario). If your thinking of adding fert layer your going to struggle. Adding a fert layer, with for example (sand) is only going to be achieved if you remove your fish and house them in a separate place for a while. Assuming your filtration system is matured you'll be able to add your fish back once its settled, or wait 24 hours if your fish are in a heated/filtered second temporary home. If your filter isnt matured, then i would add some bacter boost a.s.a.p.

Basically, to add any substrate thats of fine material, or base fert i would remove all livestock from the tank. Especially Discuss because they require prestine water conditions round the clock. Sorry if this post got repetitive, was writting it whilst going to and from other pages i have open Kept losing thought track.

[psp1000]

oic..thank all bros for all the good advice, so it not advice to add in stone/sand when there is fish already in..haix..so got no choice, guess just had to bare with it with the bare tank for the time being. Worst come to worst.

Rescently my tank also became clowdy, what cause this? I using Dolphin C-1000 for my 4ft tank, is it good enough or I had brought a wrong filter ?

[Verminator]

Stones could be added without the fish being removed providing they are washed and placed in carefully. Although without a substrate that in itself could look off with no base. Atleast you wouldnt need to worry about scratching the base glass, seeing as with substrate it becomes hidden

The filter you have i believe is the model suitable for 250-350 litres is it not? Correct me if i am wrong. Its turnover is quite high aswell, 9000 litres per hour ( i think ). For a 4 feet tank this should be adequate. For discuss an external filter capeable of coping with closer to the higher end of its tank capacity is advised - due to discus' required conditions.

Although in saying that, cloudiness can be caused by anything - so don't assume it your filter. What other regimes do you carry out with your tank. Any dosing of extras?

[psp1000]

So far in the box it write Dolphin C-1000 is 1000 litres per hour if iam not wrong. There are no other regimes in my tank, just 10 discus and 10 tiger blub, feeding 2 times a days with frozen worms. Any advice on that bro?

[freddiewee]

Hi psp1000,

i too am setting up a 4ft discus tank with that i intend to stock up. First of all i think if it is possible, in your current situation, if you are able to transfer them to a holding tank that is already cycled, then do so... you water may have turned cloudy because the BB have not established themselves? im currently using a tetra 120x with a turn over rater of 1200l/hr. therefore your dolphin C-1000 it should be sufficent. Try to put in a power filter too to channel the waste towards the intake of the filter, Get a few bottom feeders like corys or loaches so as to "Disturb" the substrate so as to allow the waste to move.

If your unable to move your discus i suggest you could do an entriely hardscape (Check out the shop at Plaza Singaura, most tanks all hardscape) lay bottom with pea gravel or even bigger pebbles and add wood + attach wood plants like anubias, mosses and ferns. easier to just lift up and vaccum under if necessary. Do try to achieve approx 2.8wpg for your lights, 2.5 would be fine for these plants

Cheers! Hopes this helps
Freddie.

[psp1000]

Thank Freddie for the good advice. Well bro, I had just sold off my holding tank after I upgrade to 4ft tank. now is just awfully bare lor. Err..any ideal the shop at Plaze Singapura is at which floor huh? any shop name ? will go there see see look look see how first. I guess i will not be able to move my discus for the time being due to no more spare tank to hold them le....haix...will try the entriely hardscape method that you advice and see how it work first.

err...u mention about the BB have not established themselves ? err..the BB stand for what huh? I suspect it the sponge filter that make the water cloudy after 1 or 2 days nearly 100% water change. Now I had take out the sponge at the sponge filter and observe for few days see how first. Will try to get few corys or loaches to distrub the substrate and see how it work.

I know Discus do needs do water change often, but hope it at least can last for a weeks then change else sometime really no time to change and guess my water bill this month going to up due to 2 to 3 days do water change for 4ft tank..haix...sianz. think House OC sure nag again liao.