Discus very sick........ need help!

[Reitus]

Hi bros,

My discus lately show signs of "stunt growth" and having their fins tuck by their side at times.

They also have black dots on them which i tried to cure for quite a while, but in vain. Now their back tail fins start to split too......

Strangely. Only the Orange type having this problem. The black discus are healthy n vibrant.

Anyone can recommend help??? 1 just died last nite.

[Panut]

whats your water parameters? And also your tank (and discus) size..

[trident]

Can't really grasp what is happening from what you have written.
But my best guess is, the orange discus has black dots on the body.
The orange discus is a pigeon breed and the black dots on their body is normal.
Can't be cured. It's part of their genetics.
Tail split is a sign of bacterial infection, use melafix to treat them.
"Stunt growth" is not a sickness, it's when a fry is not well fed and they sort of stop growing or grow very very slowly.
Hope it helps.

[luenny]

Hi bros,
Strangely. Only the Orange type having this problem. The black discus are healthy n vibrant.

You have healthy black discus?? Any pictures??

[trident]

hahaha luenny, guess I miss that.
most likely tank is dark or have dark background
and the discus turn dark not exactly black.

[Reitus]

whats your water parameters? And also your tank (and discus) size..

Tank is 2 feet. Discus er.......ok i will provide some pictures.......but i think the orange discus is abit too late to save....... the "black" (actually it has blue neons colors on it) are still very healthy. Its the cute Orange with white strips that is dying.......so sad.

Sorry, still a newbie at discus. So dunno the breed and terms etc. hehe

I will provide some pictures tonite, hopefully still in time to save it.

Btw, how to upload pics ?

[trident]

here's a guide on how to post and link you photos.
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=17940

for sick discus add plenty of salt and switch on the heater to 30 degrees C
that is if you are unsure of what disease. and I mean plenty of salt, about
2 bowl of salt for your 2 feet tank.

[luenny]

Split fins and fins tuck to the side is usually a sign of bacterial attack cause from poor water quality. I suggest before you do anything, do a large water change follow by salt as per Richard's instruction. When you do large water change (at least 50&#37, use a good water conditioner. Do not use tap water directly. The clorine and cloromine is toxic to your discus. By the way, if they're currently in planted tank, you might want to move them to a bare tank for the treatment because the large amount of salt and the medication as well as the heater you put for them can kill your plants.

[Reitus]

Ok. Can see the pics?

As you can see, the black ones are still pretty much vibrant.

The orange one unfortunately, his partner died last nite. And now as the stronger one, he is withering too. Notice the black dots on his nose and part of its body? And the tail fin is torn too. He is kinda hiding now.....sick lor.

So wat is the problem? Can anyone enlighten me please?

Thanks a ton bros.

[Reitus]

Split fins and fins tuck to the side is usually a sign of bacterial attack cause from poor water quality. I suggest before you do anything, do a large water change follow by salt as per Richard's instruction. When you do large water change (at least 50%), use a good water conditioner. Do not use tap water directly. The clorine and cloromine is toxic to your discus. By the way, if they're currently in planted tank, you might want to move them to a bare tank for the treatment because the large amount of salt and the medication as well as the heater you put for them can kill your plants.

Hmmm.......i dont have a spare tank atm......I will try to change water n put some salt in it see how. Thanks

[luenny]

Ok, the so call black one looks like blue turq or blue snake. Can't really tell. The orange one is pigeon base like Richard said. So the black spots are natural, especially in a planted tank with bright lights. Anyway, based on their eye and body size, they all look stunted - probably not feeding enough. From the second picture, the discus seems to have fin clamp. Can't really tell you what's wrong but most cases fin clamps are due to bad water quality.

Discus is not easy fish to keep in good shape and for beginners, I wouldn't advise putting them in planted tank. But since you've already put them in planted tank, here's what I do. I feed them a lot more than what you usually feed fishes in planted tank. Planted tanks have lights and have higher temperature than bare tanks without lights - unless you have chiller. So higher temp means higher metabolism and more eating. They're easier to feed too if they're healthy. I used to have 4 2.5 inches blue snakes discus which eats 1 slab of frozen bloodworm every day (32 cubes). And they breed in the tank too.

But all that feeding and big pooh produced by the discus means you have to have frequent water changes. I change at least 50% water every week. I don't think that's too good for the plants but it's a balance. As long as you don't have too demanding plants, they'll survive. That's how I keep my discus in planted tank healthy. In bare tanks, I feed them even more and with messier food too. And I do even more water changes - 75% weekly.

[trident]

it's bacterial infection, melafix and salt would cure it, but it's better to treat them in a hospital tank. Salt is not good for the plants.

my advise is give the pigeon away or get rid of it humanely, don't keep pigeon in a planted tank as black peppering will break out and make them look dirty.

[Reitus]

it's bacterial infection, melafix and salt would cure it, but it's better to treat them in a hospital tank. Salt is not good for the plants.

my advise is give the pigeon away or get rid of it humanely, don't keep pigeon in a planted tank as black peppering will break out and make them look dirty.

Thanks for the advises guys........will try to cure it ><
I doubt i will kill it, will let nature do its thing, if its meant to go

Btw, Discus doesnt like planted tank? Or not suitable to be in one?

[luenny]

Long story short.

Depends on which discus you're keeping and what type of planted tank you have. Basically their colors tend to follow the surrounding environment - yes, they can change colors. If you have dark objects or harsh shadow, the discus will follow and becomes darker. If it's very light, they'll become brighter.

One type of discus that is exception is the pigeon discus. They can't change color but develop black spots if they are stress or stay near dark objects or harsh shadow. I'm sure Richard or Stan can clarify more on this.

[Reitus]

Long story short.

Depends on which discus you're keeping and what type of planted tank you have. Basically their colors tend to follow the surrounding environment - yes, they can change colors. If you have dark objects or harsh shadow, the discus will follow and becomes darker. If it's very light, they'll become brighter.

One type of discus that is exception is the pigeon discus. They can't change color but develop black spots if they are stress or stay near dark objects or harsh shadow. I'm sure Richard or Stan can clarify more on this.

Interesting man.....hmm then how to cure them of the black spots? i bought copper solution and vitamins for discus from C328. Doesnt work. Anyway he is not gonna make it i think......but will try my best to put salt n make sure he isint stress etc.

[illumnae]

the black spots in pigeon blood discus are a genetic trait, not a manifestation of a disease. they show black spots when they're stressed or are near dark surroundings like luenny has said. as such, there's no way to "cure" them of the black spots per se. it's like asking how to "cure" a normal discus of the 9/14 bars it displays

As Richard (trident) has mentioned, your discus seem to be having bacterial infection. Get melafix and dose accordingly. Don't put salt in your planted tank please as it's bad for your plants. If you realy must use salt, use a hospital tank like Richard has advised. Based on my experience, salt is not necessary at all in planted discus tanks. What's important is maintaining water quality and as far as possible have bright surroundings. Richard can testify to coming to my place when my foreground wasn't grown in yet and seeing the discus totally black and hiding (my background oyama was black and soil was gex soil, which is almost black). 2 months down the road, my hairgrass lawn grew in and they had a bright green foreground, the discus were vibrantly coloured and happily chilling at the front.

But of course, that's something secondary. I must stress water quality again. copper solution and vitamins aren't going to help if the water they live in is filthy. It's like asking a person to be happy and healthy while living in smog. Make sure you have adequate filtration and carry out regular water changes.

[Reitus]

Thanks illumnae, Richard, lunney.
Wow i really learn alot! lol.

Ok then i dont add salt.....(since i having a planted tank) I'll get Melafix.
And i'll change water everyday too till he gets better (hopefully)

THANKS!

[illumnae]

daily water change may not be good for your plants. I used to do weekly water changes back when my tank was high tech. Now that it's low tech i do it every 6-8 weeks and the discus are happy. I think filtration is the most important. if you don't do regular water changes, go with more biofiltration or plant more heavily

[Reitus]

daily water change may not be good for your plants. I used to do weekly water changes back when my tank was high tech. Now that it's low tech i do it every 6-8 weeks and the discus are happy. I think filtration is the most important. if you don't do regular water changes, go with more biofiltration or plant more heavily

btw wat is high tech/ low tech?

Just bought malafix from C328. Smells like peppermint sia! Hope it will fix my discus =)

[StanChung]

Hi Reitus,

Discus in general
Like warm water-there's a term called 'Discus water'. averages 27-29C. pH 5-6.6, very low TDS. kH 1-3, gH<5.

Discus juvies in general that are sold as 2-2.5"
Good Growth-warm water 28-30C > but bad for plants. Plants like it <28C. 25-26C is optimum for most.

Mistake is done, so how?
Choose warm water tolerating plants or make a new bare tank with water kept a nice 29C.

Put your pigeon blood-the orange one in a bare tank and the spots would clear up quite a bit. It's genetics-discus are camouflage fish and pigeon blood is a mutant of the turquoise discus that you have.[the blue black one]. [Luenny-no fine lines on the face so it's definitely not 14 bar discus-aka Snakeskin sp.]

The medication you've bought has Tea Tree Oil-hence the smell. Only good for light bacterial infection. Most medications work on the premise to lower the pathogen count so that the fish immune system has a chance to kick in.

There's a lot of online reading on care of the king of the aquarium-you can see the best ones with planted tanks need a lot more patience and effort to get optimum growth for both plants and fish.

One adult discus is = a few dozen tetras mass wise, so if you know how many tetras can be kept in a planted tank and the maintenance involved, you can estimate stocking levels.

Your tank is a bare breeding pair tank size.

Here's a rough guide for you if you decide to redo your plans.

Choose hardy plants. Tropica website has a list. Click on the drop menu under 'Species List'. You'll notice most of them are very large species plants. Choose those that suit your tank size.

They don't like to be alone, in three's[if a pair forms- the other is bullied to death], or overcrowded[they hate each other's smell-need frequent WC].
Bullying is common so there's always one left behind in growth.
Best is 6-8 juveniles for a 150L-200L planted tank.
Bigger the better, Aquascaping wise-the tank will look very small once the discus get big. A 500L tank is ideal for 8 adult fellas IME.[if/when they pair up they will be a nuisance-pair is very territorial]

Vacuum every day, one hour after their meal if possible-top up water[10&#37; every day]. Big WC every weekend-50% also recommended.

I suggest keeping 3.5" and above fishes in planted tanks. Grow out your juvies in a warm bare tank before putting them in a cooler planted tank. HTH.