ID Fishes

[Orion]

Aiya so complicated already.

Hybrids are offsprings of two totally different species that resembles neither the mother or father whereas selective breeding offsprings have best traits of both the father and mother.

Hope I am right on this.

[hwchoy]

Would the correct term be "variety" then? As a layman and using terms that are not entirely accurate, the term "hybrid" is often used for something that is different, as in a hybrid financial instrument.

Are wild caughts more brilliant? I had noticed from photos of some wild specimens on AQ that they tend to be duller?

I must admit I am less aware of what is selective bred and what is not and therefore do not or have not steered clear of buying them. Dyed fish however is lots more obvious. I see from the tag below your nick your stand on dyed fish.

sorry what is your statement on variety refering to? A "variety" simply means something that is differing from the vast majority. so you will say the yellow flesh variety of watermelons, given that most watermelons have red flesh. in horticulture we call them cultivars.

as a general rule wild fishes looks better in their habitat, probably because they eat their natural diet and are relaxed and "happy". some fishes acclimatise better and are fed better food or even colour enhancing flakes. also if you are looking at photos, sometimes they don't do the fish justice

actually my sig says nothing about dyed fish. dyed fishes are not even a variety as they are not produced by breeding but simply by a physical process to the fishes themselves, not their offspring.

whereas selective breeding offsprings have best traits of both the father and mother.

only if the father and mother are from the same species.

[Orion]

only if the father and mother are from the same species.

of course. But if the same species have been through some gene alterations (like insertion of jelly fish gene) and their offsprings turned out to be totally different (mutation) ,can we called it a hybrid?

[CK Yeo]

No, then we call it "genetically modified".

Your concept is a bit messed up. Mutation is not related to genetic modification. It can have a mutation in a gene but not genetically modified.

ck

of course. But if the same species have been through some gene alterations (like insertion of jelly fish gene) and their offsprings turned out to be totally different (mutation) ,can we called it a hybrid?

[Orion]

I am laymen here so...

the difference here is modified and mutated.

so ... with mutation that occurs by itself in nature, that species will always stay 'wthin the range' of different strains and variants but will never be totally different. e.g red rose to yellow or orange rose and never to become lily etc. To be totally different takes very long, perhaps aeons to jump to another type and that required changes in genes in molecular level? Anything different will be a anomaly.

genetically modified is totally changed in it's genes by artificial means eg lab that changed within a birth cycle.

so if human give birth to a bear like child (e.g with bear paws among others) , we can't said it's a hybrid of man and bear but a anomaly.

Can help explained in simpler terms as Internet I checked too cheem to understand.

[hwchoy]

unfortunately I have to agree with CK your concepts are pretty "hybridized" but that's not a problem. we are all laymen the most important is the interest to learn and find out. think we should split this discussion, as soon as I get to a real cmputer!

[CK Yeo]

so ... with mutation that occurs by itself in nature, that species will always stay 'wthin the range' of different strains and variants but will never be totally different. e.g red rose to yellow or orange rose and never to become lily etc. To be totally different takes very long, perhaps aeons to jump to another type and that required changes in genes in molecular level? Anything different will be a anomaly.

... Mutations can be induced by virus, environment, diet, bacteria, chemical, radiation, genetic etc. e.g. It is said that cancer is generally caused by accumulation of ~6 independent mutation events. But of course this will differ between individuals.
To bring it back to the context of the long fin danio, the variety probably started from a mutation of the genes that regulate fin length, but the trait is subsequently enhanced by selective breeding since these traits are usually recessive. Another example of selective breeding is the goldfish.

genetically modified is totally changed in it's genes by artificial means eg lab that changed within a birth cycle.
so if human give birth to a bear like child (e.g with bear paws among others) , we can't said it's a hybrid of man and bear but a anomaly.

Yes.

Contrary to popular belief, it is not THAT easy to create a hybrid between 2 animals. The more distant they are, the more difficult.

Also, it is not easy at all to genetically modify anything. The more complex the organism, the more difficult.

Can help explained in simpler terms as Internet I checked too cheem to understand.

At least you bothered to find out

ck

[hwchoy]

Contrary to popular belief, it is not THAT easy to create a hybrid between 2 animals. The more distant they are, the more difficult.

and that's why the Luo Hand and the Blood Parrot is such an abhorrence.

[Orion]

Wow!

Mr Yeo and Mr Choy has completely 'hybridized' my that brain cell information storage in this topic.

[Matt Ford]

Great discussion! Mr Choy I still think that whatever its origin the platinum tetra is perhaps not H. rodwayi. The shop I worked in in the mid 1990s used to get imports of two different fish with the guanin deposits. One of these was golden in colour and had a very different body shape/colouration to the platinum which is more silvery-blue in colouration. The golden fish looked much more like the images of H. rodwayi I've seen in the literature and we used to receive it as H. rodwayi on the lists whereas the platinum was always just a "sp.". Just a hunch of course but interesting nevertheless.

[Flowerhfanatic]

Great discussion! Mr Choy I still think that whatever its origin the platinum tetra is perhaps not H. rodwayi. The shop I worked in in the mid 1990s used to get imports of two different fish with the guanin deposits. One of these was golden in colour and had a very different body shape/colouration to the platinum which is more silvery-blue in colouration. The golden fish looked much more like the images of H. rodwayi I've seen in the literature and we used to receive it as H. rodwayi on the lists whereas the platinum was always just a "sp.". Just a hunch of course but interesting nevertheless.

actually mine is kind of green in color... but i guess i shall revisit the LFS and revert with its actual name... i got this from Biotope, a LFS in Singapore.

[hwchoy]

Great discussion! Mr Choy I still think that whatever its origin the platinum tetra is perhaps not H. rodwayi. The shop I worked in in the mid 1990s used to get imports of two different fish with the guanin deposits. One of these was golden in colour and had a very different body shape/colouration to the platinum which is more silvery-blue in colouration. The golden fish looked much more like the images of H. rodwayi I've seen in the literature and we used to receive it as H. rodwayi on the lists whereas the platinum was always just a "sp.". Just a hunch of course but interesting nevertheless.

Matt, that's true the literature aren't too sure about the real identity of the "guaninised" fishes presumably no one is that interested since they aren't a separate species. I am basing this on what was said in the old Géry!

and since it is parasitised, most characins presumably can be infected by this to some degree.