SGX is HOT! (Discuss hot stocks here!)

[eddy planer]

Hi Folks.

SGX is only thinking of its own interest to encourage more volume to generate revenue for its own sake. However. in short selling, the interest of the retail investors and interest of the companies are ignored....So if you hold stock position,,,,YOU ARE A GONER....You simply fork out CASH for the short sellers to take it away from you.....In the end , you will still be forced to sell of at a big loss....Of course, the big trading house and SGX know very well they make money by churning volume, regardless whether it is down or up......If it is up, the short sellers will manipulate to buy it upward and to distribute the stock at at price to you by selling.......and then slowing push down the price without you knowing....to force you to sell at low low price....Many stocks have been sucked to death by short sellers......and some poor companies are too poor to buy back their own stocks....Out of 100 retail investors, 90% will lose all their investment.....So my advice to all of you....STAY OUT OF THE SGX STOCK MARKET, YOU WILL LOSE AND LOSE......MOSTLY...Short Selling is not a fair game.....it is designed for the trading house and the big investors to cheat you outright......they can keep the stock price low for years until they sucked out every poor investor money.....So almost 90 % of all SGX stocks are now dead due to SHORT SELLING.....
The only justification for the short Selling is to provide a BIG OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CRAFTY FUND MANAGERS to buy up all your honest investment at low prices so you lose and they WIN BIG AND BIG. This is really a crafty instrument that will put you t a disavantage if you buy stocks at whatever price....20$.....down to $15.......$8......down to 4.80$....You become greedy at the prospect of making big money...So you think you buy low at $4.60....Doen to $3.90....so more small fishes come in to find low price food.....soon it goes down somemore to $2.80...and even Ah Soh Ah Ma Ah Peh used all their CPF money to buy....soon it when down lower and lower.....$1.50....$1.00...and infact a lot of small fishes came in at $1 thinking it it really cheap cheap cheap.......the trap was laid.....and thy were all eaten up with real poison at 60cents.....Cheap at 60 cents.....? You buy, and you will be poisoned at maybe 30 cents.....THIS IS THE GAME OF SHORT SELLING PLAYED BY THE BIG FUND MANAGERS AND BROKERS AND TRADERS....Buying stock to win is a game of YOU CHEAT ME , I CHEAT YOU..... Even listed IPOs is an opprtunity for the directors to sell you at the listed price...you thought is is a bargain.......the price of many IPOs went from 65 cents to 1 cents.....many of these stocks were talked up by greedy banks who made money from the commission....All investment is based on greed starting from the top down.....THAT IS HOW ALL THE SMALL INVESTORS LOST ALL THEIR CPF and hard cash

Let me know your thoughts

[marle]

what about the idea of value investing in SGX?

"The strategy of selecting stocks that trade for less than their intrinsic values. Value investors actively seek stocks of companies that they believe the market has undervalued. They believe the market overreacts to good and bad news, resulting in stock price movements that do not correspond with the company's long-term fundamentals. The result is an opportunity for value investors to profit by buying when the price is deflated."

Source:Investopedia

[Orion]

Actually stocks is a merciless place. Like said You cheat me I cheat You yes it's true. If everyone is like W.Buffet then I said stocks sure stagnate like shit. It's a mind game of wisdom , control , and yes we need 'stupid greedy' people to lubricate this machine. I mean when you make easy money you come in again and make somemore and somemore and then without you knowing you are in deep a$$pit cause greed overcomes you. That's why I am surprised people still buy when the stocks are all high. Also learn to let go if you must. That is the best time to forget stocks and keep fishes. But we are human we just can't let go bargain....

and so we buy potentially excellent company, (nowadays very easy, all calculations all done for you just spend some money buy a share investor magazine) and in a few years time when the stocks go up, then sell to these 'stupid greedy' people again. That's how it works for me. If you feel guilty, you can donate some of the profits to the poor. (literally give them personally to them by hand - damn you can't trust anyone nowaday)

I like W buffet who says parts Smart people do leveraging and when just one of the things get kaputt, it's game over because many things X Zero = Zero.

You can't be too smart all the times - buy low sell high, good strategy to make a good killing, time the market, roll something and make bigger profits...

Just relax and be yourself when you buy some, don't be too frenzy.

Kopi money or cover inflation cost is good enough for me.
Just newcomer here in stock.

Pardon me for using 'stupid greedy'.

[andrewtyr]

My take is buy with the amount you can afford to lose and still sleep well through the night.

The stock market will truly be the bottom when everyone says that its crazy to go into it. Its going to be a deep L-shaped market.

[rwalker]

Everyone risk profile is different. One's strategy may not work for the others.

If you have spare cash, have a investment time frame of 3-5 years, now is the good time to invest. But if you are those who lose sleep over daily share price fluctuation and can't keep your eyes off the monitor every minute, then stay out of it. It is not the time for faint-hearted.

Lastly, if I would equate investment and planted tank, the same technique apply - research, research and research. Do your homework and know what you are doing.

[barmby]

I would say... it has been good read from you folks. I am just a fish keeper. Thanks. I understand more now.

[Savant]

Erm....

Just buy what you can afford to hold for a few years (1-3) and you'll be fine... For every market transaction, where there is a seller, there must be a buyer... it is the seller who sells at a lower price than when he buys who really loses money... As such, you can distinguish yourself by not selling at the wrong price (however this means that you are only investing your own money that you would have placed elsewhere in the bank)... The only danger is where the company in particular goes bust (as per lehman) or stops issuing dividend... now if you think about it, this is a very unlikely situation (if Coy A has 1000 shares at 100 dollars each, but assets or earnings over 300 dollars a share, then someone in the market can buy over the entire shareholding and liquidate the assets)...

That said... calculating the value of shares is a very difficult thing that may be beyond you and me... so step cautiously...

Hi Folks.

SGX is only thinking of its own interest to encourage more volume to generate revenue for its own sake. However. in short selling, the interest of the retail investors and interest of the companies are ignored....So if you hold stock position,,,,YOU ARE A GONER....You simply fork out CASH for the short sellers to take it away from you.....In the end , you will still be forced to sell of at a big loss....Of course, the big trading house and SGX know very well they make money by churning volume, regardless whether it is down or up......If it is up, the short sellers will manipulate to buy it upward and to distribute the stock at at price to you by selling.......and then slowing push down the price without you knowing....to force you to sell at low low price....Many stocks have been sucked to death by short sellers......and some poor companies are too poor to buy back their own stocks....Out of 100 retail investors, 90% will lose all their investment.....So my advice to all of you....STAY OUT OF THE SGX STOCK MARKET, YOU WILL LOSE AND LOSE......MOSTLY...Short Selling is not a fair game.....it is designed for the trading house and the big investors to cheat you outright......they can keep the stock price low for years until they sucked out every poor investor money.....So almost 90 % of all SGX stocks are now dead due to SHORT SELLING.....
The only justification for the short Selling is to provide a BIG OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CRAFTY FUND MANAGERS to buy up all your honest investment at low prices so you lose and they WIN BIG AND BIG. This is really a crafty instrument that will put you t a disavantage if you buy stocks at whatever price....20$.....down to $15.......$8......down to 4.80$....You become greedy at the prospect of making big money...So you think you buy low at $4.60....Doen to $3.90....so more small fishes come in to find low price food.....soon it goes down somemore to $2.80...and even Ah Soh Ah Ma Ah Peh used all their CPF money to buy....soon it when down lower and lower.....$1.50....$1.00...and infact a lot of small fishes came in at $1 thinking it it really cheap cheap cheap.......the trap was laid.....and thy were all eaten up with real poison at 60cents.....Cheap at 60 cents.....? You buy, and you will be poisoned at maybe 30 cents.....THIS IS THE GAME OF SHORT SELLING PLAYED BY THE BIG FUND MANAGERS AND BROKERS AND TRADERS....Buying stock to win is a game of YOU CHEAT ME , I CHEAT YOU..... Even listed IPOs is an opprtunity for the directors to sell you at the listed price...you thought is is a bargain.......the price of many IPOs went from 65 cents to 1 cents.....many of these stocks were talked up by greedy banks who made money from the commission....All investment is based on greed starting from the top down.....THAT IS HOW ALL THE SMALL INVESTORS LOST ALL THEIR CPF and hard cash

Let me know your thoughts

[eddy planer]

Hi Folks,

Yes, do you know. SGX management, or should we say CDP management, are people with closed mindsets. No forward looking. Die die cling on to the old system.

I know what's in their minds.. "Ah, so far so good. Nothing bad has happened these years and we are doing fine. Our volumes are reasonable so are are revenues, enough to keep us going. Why want to trouble ourselves. The fall in share market is all over the world, and are also in the same situation."

But, the but is that we can do better by taking out the short selling through borrowed shares. We already have the brokers' own derivatives the CFDs which can give speculators a chance to predict a fall in share price.

Why do we want people to predict our local companies' share prices to fall? Absurd, is it not?

You want share prices to be push down? You want the treasury to be reduced to where you began? No body in his right mind will want this. Same with shares.

Who benefits in the downing of share prices. The shortists. Who are they? The manipulators, the independant directors or their staff. Why? They prefer not to put money to make money by hook or by crook.

I also hope the CDP/SGX/MAS know that it is time to do something. Call a meeting, brain storm the danger, use models etc. I am sure the meeting will be able to make some sense of direction.

agree?

[Savant]

Ah, I agree that shorting is quite an evil indeed...

[eddy planer]

Hi folks,


If SGX/CDP is not taking any concrete approach to ban
or modify short selling on borrowed stocks, and then
MAS also refuses to recognize the dangers of the activity
to neutralize economic growth, then we must try to
understand the possible reasons. I was thinking about
them and have put forward these possibilities:

1. MAS itself not involved in share trading (presumably)
does not understand the deeper mechanics of shorting on
borrowed stocks since it might not have built a mathematical
model to work on. No see disaster why talk danger?

2. MAS cannot "think out of the box" owing to lack of statistics to prove that short selling of stocks itself can damage an economy. There is no straight answer to it. Only the Ah Tee, Ah Beng and Ah Kow are saying that only. No big man has even whispered about it even.

3. MAS might be the original advocate (guessing only) of the
system of borrowing stocks for short selling in the stock
exchange. So to save face not to reverse the advocacy even
if there happens to be a good theory around.

4. Last and most probable reason that I could think of: The main
stakeholders in Singapore are net shortists, MAS must support them.

agree?

[AquaObsession]

Is short selling really the culprit here? I think it's the business model, not short selling. Get a rough estimate of the % value of transaction being shortsell, well some say the ban on shortselling on NYSE is not justified!

Cheers, Christophe

[timebomb]

The way you put it, Eddy, it would seem that if short-selling can be stopped completely, the markets will never crash.

In a bear market like what we are seeing now, investors just love to hate the short-sellers and would tend to blame them for everything that goes wrong. Short-sellers can make a bear market worst by further depressing the prices of stocks but in reality, short-sellers alone cannot turn a bullish market into a bearish one.

You remind me of Dr Mahathir who put all the blame on George Sorros during the height of the Asian financial crisis. He blamed Sorros for driving down the value of the ringgit by betting negatively against it. You know, the market is full of sharks. They swim around looking for potential prey to attack. But the sharks attack only those that they are think are weak in the first place. Basically, if your fundamentals are strong, the sharks can't take you down. It's only when you show signs of weaknesses that the sharks will gather around and attack.

In the market today, we are looking at many companies whose fundamentals are strong but their stock prices have gone down to ridiculously low levels. Now is the time to go in and buy when everything is going for a huge discount. But to make money, you have to be able to hold it for the long term, of course. Take in terms of years, maybe 3 or even 5 years down the road. You will look back then and kick yourself for not picking up the shares when they were so cheap.

Loh K L

[eddy planer]

Hi Chris / Loh,

Many people don't realize that it is not easy to fight against these short-sellers (on borrowed stocks). I would like to term these shortists Corporate Shortists because they operate as a fund or a reverse investor.

What they need is the support of the exchanges they operate in. I believe they rope in the managers of these exchanges to protect their activities. We are aware that in some governments, there are government people behind the back of the mafias. So this thing cannot be ruled out.

The only way to beat the corporate shortists is to lobby for the removal of the borrowing system or to modify it setting certain limits to borrowing, say only 1 percent of the company's issued shares. 1 percent is actually too much but at least after shorting 1 percent of the borrowed shares of one company, they can't do much to further depreciate the shares to their benefits.

The other way is for company whose shares are being shorted through long term borrowing of such shares by such crooks, is to relentlessly buy back and buy back the shares without surrender as much as they shorted. Go on and on. I admire the companies who dared the corporate shortists. But the problem is they couldn't do much since there are rules of the exchanges playing against them. In other words, they must report and report like mad what they do while corporate shortists need not. (Correct me if I am wronghere). Furthermore resources is always limited. The company will need more and more money to fight these "crooks or scammers".

But we must support directors who have vested interests in the company's well being, i.e. those with significant investments in their own companies. But not the independent directors, the people linked, nor those unregulated insiders because I fear them for their loyalty. These independent directors are also likely to secretly doing the company no good.. Beware they may be even be proxies of the shortists.

Recently, I observed Yangzijang doing plenty of buy backs on daily basis. We must say "kudos" to them. Though the shortists are so powerful, the directors never give up. Although the shares have been depressed with each daily buybacks, I believe the Corporate Shortists will be finished sooner or later if more investors collect the shares in tandem with company daily buybacks. This is because after the buybacks the directors will surely give them some good show, some good wayang for them to remember that not all pies are delicious. Yes, some might give them a bad stomach! Haha, Maybe these shortists will bankrupt themselves soon as a result.

Let me know your thoughts

[timebomb]

Haha, Maybe these shortists will bankrupt themselves soon as a result.

I think your last sentence in your post (quoted above) says more than all the other points you have made so far. The fact of the matter is, short sellers run risks just like any other player in the market. Why should they be made out to be the culprits whenever markets crash?

In the property market, there's no such thing as short-selling. Yet, property markets crash just the same when market sentiment turns bad. So how do you explain this, Eddy?

Loh K L

[eddy planer]

Hi Loh,

We are discussing that how shorting on borrowed stocks has negative effects on the SGX and for that matter globally, few people would want to discourage it from the few replies we found posted here.

Now US is coming strongly against short selling and is introducing new rules against it with immediate effect.

Shorting is 100 percent speculation evolving itself to 100 percent manipulation, thus we can see one giant after another collapsing.

But I think the collapse of Lehman Brothers can be said to be the result of the domino effect that I mentioned earlier which might have been caused by their staff or directors involving one way or another helping share values to depress and evntually shooting their own feet in the long run.

Even if not owing to staff or directors involvement in shortists' acts, the process of short-selling now is showing itself to be very damaging and disastrous for Singapore and the global market. I think many people are affected by the bankruptcy of Lehman. They made money somewhere and lose it with Lehman. These are the result of bad aura being attracted.

Now our only hope is that SGX watchdog people are awake and not sleeping or indifferent to the happenings around the market. You have vigorously asked them to stop allowing borrowed shares to be shorted but alas their ears could not be penetrated with your calls to steer away from danger of this evil deed of shorting on borrowed shares.

So as I said, we hope the action of the US SEC can be a clear signal that something should be done lest the big "giant" banks and corporations of Singapore make it to the news headlines of the world following Lehman's footsteps or be akin to AIG's problems.

Agree?

[Orion]

The market today, we are looking at many companies whose fundamentals are strong but their stock prices have gone down to ridiculously low levels. Now is the time to go in and buy when everything is going for a huge discount. But to make money, you have to be able to hold it for the long term, of course. Take in terms of years, maybe 3 or even 5 years down the road. You will look back then and kick yourself for not picking up the shares when they were so cheap.

Loh K L

Hi Timebomb

You keep stressing that it is now the good time to buy those fundamentally strong companies and I see that the price of some have not reach the bottom yet and are falling every few days as we speak. Isn't it better to wait for a while(4 to 6 months) when all the stocks seem ridiculously weak and also perhaps then we can truly see a clearer picture.

It seems also highly unlikely that there will be any significant re-bounce within these 1 to 2 years, so slowly take your time to buy.

[timebomb]

Orion,

First of all, I would like to point out that nobody knows for sure where's the bottom. You can choose to play safe and wait a bit longer but as far as I'm concerned, the market's low enough now. Perhaps it's because I've personally lived through more than one stock market crash so I'm a little "braver" (or maybe more "foolhardy") than others.

My point is, you will never know when's the bottom. Secondly, you also don't know for sure how long it will take before the market turns around. But from what has happened in the last few years, the cycles (where markets go from bull to bear and back to bull again) are getting shorter than before.

My investment strategy does not require that I buy the stocks when they are at the bottom. As long as they are lower than average, it's good enough for me. I also don't have to wait for them to reach the peak before selling them. I'll take my profits when the prices return to slightly above-average.

The strategy has worked well for me since I became a stock market investor in 1991. As far as I'm concerned, it's not rocket-science. Just buy low and sell high, it's that simple. The difficult part is not about having the discipline to stay with the market when it's bad but to stay out of the market when it's good. That's what I do really. I become an active player only when the market crashes. During the boom times, I'm completely an outsider.

Loh K L

[blue33]

I do agree, now is the best time, is really low at this time, so long you know what you are buying, especially those blue chips with strong foundation. I just collect my dividends from a blue chips share which gave 0.29%(it may seem low but when you multipy by thousand... ) when i bought it low. I would still hold it as they have potential. I do buy low and sell at the rate which i think is ok for me. To really do well in the market, you really must have extra cash and the patience to hold, knowing that it will go even lower, lots of people loss because when they see the stocks plunge their heart drops, if you have this kind of feeling my advice is you are not suitable to play in this, because you will sell crazily like the rest, assisting the plunge even further. In 100 years the stocks has never really drop to this stage so much at this rate, where people are scare of this situation there's opportunity also. You can see big fish eat small fish at this time, because they know this is the ever best time they can beat their competitor where true colour shown of their weakness.

Just buy what you are comfortable with, provided you are prepare the drops, you must have the mentalilty "let it be" if drop.

[Orion]

Actually I already done up a spreadsheet of blue-chips to buy at certain price. Just a little more lower that does it!

Then I will just keep it in a locker, forget about it till people say good times are back.

If it bounces back, never mind lah, but imagine 40cents more X thousands plus the 'delicious' dividends.

Only a few sniper shots for me.

[Orion]

Orion,

My point is, you will never know when's the bottom. Secondly, you also don't know for sure how long it will take before the market turns around. But from what has happened in the last few years, the cycles (where markets go from bull to bear and back to bull again) are getting shorter than before.

Loh K L

Well for me, the best indication now is to see the jobless situation statistic. I also believe this one is different from 1997 or even the one from 1980s. (I only encountered the 1997,just once)

It will be more like the one of the 1970s. Seriously I have a bad 'feeling' about this one and I believed a lot of things are still insidiously hiddened. This time there is not going to have other factors to prop up the stock market as they may already run out of tricks. Trillions dollars rescued only fuelled inflation further and yet the fundamental problems are still not fully resolved.

We may also be seeing new order of things to come.

But then again, ample rewards come to those who take ample risks. The winners will only be known in many years from now.