Low survival rate of Apistogramma fry

[Zenislev]

Just want to know more about how do you guys sustain fry rate for Apistogramma. I tend to have a very low survival rate on my fries. Normally when the female is confirm guarding a batch of eggs, i'll remove the male from tank. After fries become free swimming, i'll start feeding bbs. During this period of time, the fries will be left in care with the mum. But as weeks passes, i will always tend to see fries decreasing in numders....sometimes till less than 10 fries.

Do anyone encounter this problem? How do you guys tackle such problem? Please feel free to post here....i'll wanna share with other fellow forumers too.

[taygu]

Hi, what is the size of the tank and do you have a lot of plant in it?
If the tank is too big and if the frys wondered too far off, the mum will have problem in "catching" them back, if the frys are "loss" in the tank, chances of dying due to starvation is high. Too many plant also poss a problem for the mum to locate them.

What filter you are using, you need to ensure that none is being suck into the filter.

[Zenislev]

I use normal bio-sponge filter. Tank is a 2feet partitioned to 3 compartments. So fries will never be lost....filter no problem also. Substrate using ADA amazonia 2. PH around 6.6-6.7.

[taygu]

Your tank setup is better them mine. I am using a slightly smaller than 1 tank cube tank and bare bottom. There is only a DW with Java fern with a hang on filter and recently also change to sponge filter to cut down electricity.

May want to check on the ammonia or nitrite level..

[genes]

Well...this may be one reason why they cost more! Survival of the fittest!

I experience the same problem too. I've tried raising the fries with and without the parents and seems a combination of both yields better result.

Firstly, with the male in the tank, i have never got the chance to raise a brood successfully. This could be because of the small environment that we keep them in. The constant contact between the male and a brooding female is not desirable in a small environment.

Secondly, with just the female, once the fries have reached certain maturity, the female will start to turn aggressive towards them. Hence, this may have resulted in some loss of your fries. Even if you have provided for them during this period, not all fries are born healthy.

Next, when i remove the fries from the parents too soon, say less then a week after they have hatched. I experience more deaths which i attribute to the difference in water chemistry between the fry tank and the parent tank ( i do not use same water in my fry tank and parent tank). They seems to be more sensitive to water parameters changes during this age. And also, i think the newly hatched fries are dependent on the maternal instinct of the female to graze for food, dash for safety etc. Removing them too early, they get stressed and like taygu mentioned, may also starve to death.

Finally, i do a combination which i feel yields the best result. Once the eggs are laid and female is guarding her cave, i remove the male. I keep the fries with the female up to 3mths, depending on how fast the fries grow up and how the female is reacting to them. Thereafter, i remove them to a fry tank.

Another thing is feeding...too much food they die, too little food they also die... difficult to judge... i have lost a whole brood of 40+ A. elizabathae fries due to over feeding. My feeding regime for fries are twice a day, once in the morning, once at night. On weekends, they get more frequent feedings of up to 4 times a day.

[ongtw]

could the species also make a difference? My viejita which i got from Zen did great. i've got 3 batches of fry with me right now. i've tried removing the father, putting both parents together as well as removing both parents. My fry seems to be doing alright.

i'm also using a bare bottom tank with a sponge filter and its a 5G tank. I don't feed as many times as genes do though. Just once in the morning with frozen BS. I only feed them twice a day with uncapped bbs eggs during the first month or so. after which i will switch to frozen bs.

nothing special on my water parameters also. i just re-fill water straight from the tap.

[Zenislev]

Thats something we may need to look into. Different people experience different results with different methods. I may be using the same method as you do, but you may have good results while i can have fry survival rate near to zero....all these can happen.

Now, feeding is definately something that a breeder must take note. Next thing we might want to look into is water chemistry i guess, your tank may have a better water chemistry than mine....things like that. Another thing, one can leave the mum with the fries....but within a month you can see fries decreasing slowly in numbers. From what i know, some people will remove both parents after a week, or even remove fries to another tank. Question is...will that method really work?

So...lets share some water chemistry of your tanks here. And also, how many have tried using the method of removing both parents or remove all fries to another tank?

[joopsg]

In my point of view, the number decrease is due to mother.
It is because the mother will feel stress when she need to tend to large brood of fries.
It is natural instinct of hers to cull the number of fries, the weakest will normally go first.
Provide sufficient food is good but not overfeed as the fries are sensitive to changes in the water parameter. Just ensure the mother doesn't feel stress.
Try not to place the seperated pair in adjacent tank, the urge for the female to spawn may trigger her to kill off the current batch of fries.

I once kept a agassizi pair, the parents are seperated in the same tank but opaque partition. Suprisingly, both fish will tend the fries when they wander into their area.

[mobile2007]

So far the survival rate of my fries are quite high. Last batch of trifasciata almost no casualties. But the only thing is that the pH of my water is close to 7.6 and the ratio of the sex highly biased towards the male. Not sure whether is it becos the male fishes are better survivors.

What i do, separate the male fish (father) once the fries free swimming. Leave the female with the fries for 3 weeks ( 1.5 ft tank) . Feed them decap or bbs during this time. Separate the fries to a 1 ft tank after 3 weeks.

[Zenislev]

When you guys feed bbs....how much you guys feed them everytime? And how many times per day?

[genes]

I mentioned about males being bad father in a small environment....at biotope, its the big male Rotkeil taking care of the fries! The female is in the same tank and totally do not bother about the fries at all....male can be seen chasing female away sometimes....amazing behaviour....

[mobile2007]

Difficult to judge how much eggs is used, but i think i hatched abt 0.5 gram of bbs. Able to harvest 2 to 3 times per day, each time u can see the net(of hatchery dish) is covered with full layer of bbs. Feed them twice a day and all the bbs hatched everyday.

I found that the amount is more than enough for 40-50 fries. Also, will off the hang on filter while feeding.

[taygu]

Difficult to judge how much eggs is used, but i think i hatched abt 0.5 gram of bbs. Able to harvest 2 to 3 times per day, each time u can see the net(of hatchery dish) is covered with full layer of bbs. Feed them twice a day and all the bbs hatched everyday.

I found that the amount is more than enough for 40-50 fries. Also, will off the hang on filter while feeding.

Hi,

It depends on the brood size. Using the plastic spoon from Macdonald when you order coffee. I usually hatch about 3/4 of the spoon and feed them once a day..

Hope this help..