Reply With QuoteQuestion 4 sort of...
Question 5 no just have to find old stocks if you can.
Question 6 it is not the designs but the amount of parts involve in keeping the filter water tight.
Question 7 yeah you should go for that.
Classic
Ecco
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Pro2
Pro3
Re: Eheim Canister Filter Comparison
Even so, shouldn't the net result be an impact against the pump output of the filter, i.e. overall "flow-rate"? Expressing 2 figures like this seems confusing.Originally Posted by xconnect.
Question 4: In other words, for the Pro II 2028, I should read it as "flow rate reducible to 750l/h"?
Oh, I didn't realize the 2026 & 2028 are very old models.
Question 5: Is there any new series replacing the Pro II series?
The new "eXperience" series resembles the current Pro series, i.e. especially the eXperience 250 (which is almost like a Pro 2224). Thing is, I'm looking for something around 900l/h & the eXperience 250 is a tad too low (700l/h as per the 2224) while the eXperience 350 is a tad too high (1050l/h). The "old" Pro II 2026 is just nice at 950l/h.
Question 6: Is the leaking inherent to the physical design of the Pro II series? What's so difference between the canister of the Pro II versus the Pro series?
Question 7: Maybe I should get a eXperience 350 & stuff it so full of media that its 1050l/h flow rate is slowed down drastically?
Question 4 sort of...
Question 5 no just have to find old stocks if you can.
Question 6 it is not the designs but the amount of parts involve in keeping the filter water tight.
Question 7 yeah you should go for that.
To add on and the pro 2 having many parts involved in keeping the filter water tight it is hard to troubleshooting the cause.
Re: Eheim Canister Filter Comparison
Question 8:
@xconnect, in other words, based on your past experience, I take it you will really recommend against getting any model from the Pro II series?
Question 9a:
In fact, will you say you will rather me either jump 1 series down to get the 2228 (from the Pro series; 1050l/h), or jump 1 series up to get the 2073 (from the Pro III series; 1050l/h)? Because I called up C328 yesterday & the shopkeeper has no idea what the eXperience (350) model is, even after I told him that the eXperience is supposed to replace the Pro (222X) series.
Question 9b:
I suppose the eXperience series is either super new (launched not more than a month?) or maybe they are still named the 222X series amongst the shops? Do you know where (locally) I can get the eXperience series you recommended?
Question 10:
Or is the Pro III subjected to the same downside, e.g. too many parts to troubleshoot for leakage, as the Pro II series?
Hey, I realize the "Eheim Wet and Dry 2227" is going for $340 on Blue Planet SG's site! It's not as (that ridiculously) expensive as I thought? & that 2227 has a 1050l/h flow rate! Anything against using wet/dry filters for planted tanks? I read that Tom Barr always use wet/dry filters for his client's tanks (unsure if those clients are always doing planted tanks, though)...
The experience is still a very new term you tell uncle or lady boss you want 2228. They should understand.
Pro three is as reliable as the pro series because usually when A pro two leaks it is because of that big prime button. It is a big piece of rubber therefore after a few years the rubber will crack and eventually it will leak.and fixing it is 30$. Which is an amount that cannot be ignored.Pro three wise the prim is small so It will last.However the price is a premium too.if you really want the most lasting eheim classic best. I heard of classics of age 19 years old which is older than me.
Re: Eheim Canister Filter Comparison
you mean the "new" eXperience series is nothing more than a "re-naming" of the old 222X series? There's nothing different in terms of the physical equipment (from the old 222X series)?
So between 2228 & a 2073 (both can do 1050l/h), which will you go for/recommend?
Btw, anybody know the approximate price of these 2 models above?
Hi Ralliart,
Sorry to jump in and look clueless.
May I clarify how you determined that 900L/H was the flowrate you need for the canister?
Have you estimated your head pressure loss and factored that in?
Are you using the canister to run your chiller as well?
You may wish to take note of the delivery head, HMax, of these canisters as well during comparison.
The 2228 has a HMax of 2.0m while the 2073 stands at 1.8m. This means that the 2228 can handle pressure loss slightly better and hence, have a higher real-life flowrates than the 2073.
However, it also has a much larger media volume, which depending on what you put in and how dirty it gets, may or may not impact the 2228 to the point where it's slight HMax advantage is lost.
IMHO, A good rule of thumb I used would be to estimate a 1/3 loss of flowrate from the media alone so you certainly will not be seeing 900L/H from either of these filters once fully loaded.
This is certainly not accurate enough for comparing canisters though, so I had decided pretty early in my hobby to go for the model with the highest HMax, followed by the highest flowrate, the Pro3e 2078
The only canister that can beat it, is the largest of the old classic model (1500XL, or used to be 2260), which technically, is just an Eheim 1260 Universal Pump mounted to a bucket.
Last edited by Navanod; 5th Sep 2012 at 10:45.
Re: Eheim Canister Filter Comparison
Please do not stand on ceremony.
I bought a 2224 for my upcoming planted tank. 2224 is clocked at 700l/h on an empty canister. By right, assuming a 50% loss of flow rate from a "normally-filled" canister, the flow rate will be dropped to 3++ l/h.
However, as I read more & more forum posts, i.e. both local & overseas forums, it appears that one can do no harm & indeed more good with high flow rate for planted tanks.
Besides, if I connect more funky stuff to my setup beyond a single chiller, I have more "buffer" flow rate to play with.
Lastly, if I do upgrade a tank, having a more powerful filter, isn't half bad either.
Hence, I decided I need a better filter, i.e. stronger flow rate & if it has a bigger canister volume, even better. & since my (unused) 2224 is clocked at 700l/h, I believe the most common upgrade will clock in at the 950l/h & 1050l/h specifications. I was a bit hesitant to even factor in 1050l/h models, but I suddenly recall I like to pack a crap-load of media into my filters.
Yes.
I have no idea what those terms, i.e. head pressure loss & HMax, are.
If you don't mind, can you explain why is that so?
Well, I would regard that as a plus-point! Even if the amount of media & amount of clogging removes its slight HMax advantage, isn't it good that the 2228 has that advantage to begin with?
Exactly. Actually when I purchase equipment, I always tell myself the specifications were measured in an "optimum" environment & real-life may not be optimal.
I would, but then I'm not made of cash (besides, I need to get another LED fixture soon). So Navanod, in my scenario, it seems you have convinced me to get the 2228 instead of the 2073? Any idea the approximate price of the 2228?...This is certainly not accurate enough for comparing canisters though, so I had decided pretty early in my hobby to go for the model with the highest HMax, followed by the highest flowrate, the Pro3e 2078
The only canister that can beat it, is the largest of the old classic model (1500XL, or used to be 2260), which technically, is just an Eheim 1260 Universal Pump mounted to a bucket.
UPDATE: I was just told by C328 auntie that the 2228 is discontinued? & replaced by 2028, and after 15 years (unsure if I heard her correctly here), even the 2028 is replaced by 2075?!
But, now that this updated information is presented to me, should I get the 2073 instead? I'm not sure if I know how to "tune down" the 1250l/h rate of the 2075 (the 2073 is rated at 1050l/h)...
Indeed. Buy once, cry once.
Eheim tends to have a better "filled up" flowrate than ye olde China brand canisters although a 50% is still a good conservative estimate, especially if you liked packing in the media, putting prefilters and sponge at the inlet and not having to clean the thing every 2 months.
Chillers are the worst flow killer. I'm not sure if its related to brand design, or simply HP rating (where they'll pack more cooling coils into the thing, which kills more flow) but even the so called best brand Arctica chiller (1/4hp) easily killed most of the flow from an Eheim compact 5000+, which has a 3.0m HMax and 5000L/H flowrate. The other half of the flow was lost to the height of the tank (powerheads do not benefit from the syphon of the returning water into the sump, unlike canisters, so they have to overcome all the gravity to pump up to the tank) and I ended up having to throw in another powerhead (1260) just to cater to the chiller.
Canisters, although able to ignore much of the height/gravity issue, generally do not perform well against a chiller either. Be prepared to lose anywhere from 1.5m to 2.0m of head pressure from its HMax.
Lets see if I can explain this.
Hmax (Max head pressure of the pump) is the height at which, if we were to attach a vertical hose that runs straight up into the sky, with no other resistance, no hose wall friction and no media, that the pump can pump water up to. i.e, simply gravity+weight of water vs the force of the pump.
This value, has an inverse relationship with max flowrate. At 0m (i.e no resistance) you get max flowrate. You'll only see this flowrate if you simply let the pump spray water straight out like a fountain.
As more resistance gets added, such as media, length of hose, rainbar, sponge prefilters etc, which somehow must be converted to a head loss value (which is how much height it would be in the gravity + water vs pump power equation, don't ask me how), the flowrate decreased in a linear fashion.
In other words, it follows a formula:
Actual flow = Maxflow/Hmax x (Hmax-Head loss)
A highflow pump with a low HMax would see its flowrate fall rapidly when presented with resistance, while a moderate flowrate pump with a high Hmax will have a more gentle slope in the flowrate decline.
An analogy would be that the flowrate is like the top speed of a car, while the Hmax is the horsepower (or torque). A sports car may go at crazy speed but cannot pull much weight without slowing down significantly. A truck cannot go very fast but can pull alot of weight with minimal loss of speed.
Well yes! At a slight cost of 4W more electricity consumption and 4W more heat dump into the water! haha!
Which means that your 900L/H is not the eventual flowrate you want, but rather the max flowrate that you believe will give you enough buffer. That's good.
Pound for pound and dollar for dollar, the 2228 is certainly the one I would recommend. It's a proven workhorse and I'm still keeping my first 2226 canister for rainy days.
The Pro3 does come with certain features that cannot be directly taken into account in this flowrate vs cost equation. For one, it comes with a built in prefilter top tray that makes cleaning much less troublesome. Water will hit this tray first and goes through a sponge before flowing all the way down to the bottom (via a bypass pipe, as per normal in most canisters), before coming back up and passing through all the layers of media and the final fine wool filter at the top. In this way, simply removing this pre-filter tray for washing will expose the fine wool for changing at the same time which in most cases will remove almost 80% of the crap that's choking the canister.
The 2228 (and Pro 2s) does not have this and if you choose to stick a piece of prefilter sponge in that empty space at the bottom of the canister, it'll be a pain to access. If you do not care for prefilters (or have an external one), then it'll not matter to you.
The bypass pipe is also a standalone part at one corner of the canister body, rather than a linked series of holes on each of the filter trays. This eliminates the need to keep changing the big rubber seals on each media trays (for some reason, these get hard and misshapen in less than a year, even when thoroughly greased) and lessens the chances of water leaking and bypassing the trays on the way down. Less alignment issues too.
Other than that, there's the obvious priming/air purging lever on the Pro 3 which may or may not matter to you.
As for the C328 auntie's claims, I suggest you give a call to other shops to verify (Qian Hu will be the authority on this, since they distribute the brand). I'm quite sure I still see 2228's being sold at certain places. Since Eheim is not discontinuing the line (just renaming), spare parts should still be available in the near future.
Re: Eheim Canister Filter Comparison
That's what I've heard. I wonder if it is due to the good seal they are able to sustain on their canister?
Actually I will think that the chiller is just a big "empty" sealed container for water to flow through right? By right they should cause no "obstruction" to the flowing water, no? The electronics inside the chiller do not touch the water, right?
How come canister filters are able to avoid this gravity issue even when they are most commonly placed significantly below the tank? Essentially, isn't there a powerhead inside the canister filter top?
Actually this is still very counter-intuitive to me, i.e. I would expect high flow rate = high HMax. I know the analogy in terms of automobiles, i.e. torque versus speed, is factual, but I find that counter-intuitive too. I just never question it.
Actually, an off-topic question: don't people re-use the wool to retain as much beneficial bacteria as possible?
Yes, I saw this & was pleasantly surprised. Another nice thing about the Pro3-series is that I believe it comes with installation set #1 & #2 out of the box (I think).
Is the priming lever the one making the funny "spring-decompressing" sound many users reported?
What does the air-purging lever do?
Called PetMart & they confirmed the 2228 is discontinued & replaced by the 2075. Called QianHu & they confirmed the 2228 is discontinued too. Guess I have to have a 2075 or 2073 then...so a bit worried about the flow rate of the 2075; I intend to deploy it in a planted 2-foot tank without turning it into a 2-foot washing machine. Can the 2075 flow rate be tuned down permanently without serious wear to the pump?
Actually, the cooling tank in a chiller is not very big, about the size of a tissue box at best and half packed with cooling coils. The loss of flow is mainly due to 2 factors:
1. The 2 90 degrees elbow in and out of the chiller. 90 degrees turns are very bad for flow, which is why smooth turns/coils or 2 45 degrees elbows are preferred in many designs. Why the Eheim installation kits makes 2 90 degrees turns in it's design is beyond me (but I still like using them, hehe).
2. The sudden expansion (and pressure loss) of entering the larger cooling chamber and the turbulence caused by water having to U-turn upward as well as hitting the cooling coils on the way down and then up.
The gravity is compensated by the returning water from the tank. The canister, being a closed and pressurized system (as opposed to an opened sump), benefits from the potential energy of the water that is coming back down from the tank, which in turn helps to push water back up. The pump in the canister just has to push water, not pull. Its the same force that lets us siphon water and dirt from the tank during waterchange (without using a pump) and the main reason why we need to purge the air from our canisters to make them work properly.
Sorry. Perhaps my explanation was not very good. High Hmax does help to maintain a high flowrate. However, highflow does not equal high HMax and can exist independently. Flowrate can be increased by having a larger hose diameter and larger impeller blades, without actually increasing Hmax. Increasing HMax on the other hand, may involve the impeller blades being more angled, a better pump chamber design to create acceleration through vortex as well as spinning the impeller at a higher speed. I'm no engineer though, so I cannot explain beyond this
The fine filter wool is quite unusable and impossible to wash. It'll actually compress, shrink and flatten with time and the amount of dirt trapped will turn it totally dark brown. You can certainly try to wash it, but it'll no longer keep its shape and upon replacing into the canister, will no longer cover the entire media tray.
Most people leave the job of housing bacteria to the actual bio-media and just toss the wool. Sponges on the other hand, can be washed but is not as effective at trapping fine dirt.
Really?? Mine came with the regular greenish rainbar...
Its just one lever and it helps with priming and purging air. There is a springy sound yes but that's to be expected since there's a spring? You'll probably have to try it yourself to know how it works.
Yikes, I'll have to look when I next visit Seaview. I would expect some stocks to remain unless QH recalled all the remaining Pros?
To reduce the flowrate on the Pro 3, you can partially close the lever that is directly in front of the inlet/outlet hose barbs. Its the one that toggles left and right, can't miss it.
To avoid a washing machine without reducing flowrate, use a longer rainbar (Installation kit helps, just add more rainbar pieces. You can even add 90 degrees elbows and zigzag to slow the water down even more) and aim all the flow at the back glass underwater.
Re: Eheim Canister Filter Comparison
Any owner of the Pro 3 series knows if this area (bordered in red) underneath the top-cover of the 2073 is supposed to look "snapped off"?:
Hi folks,
need a little help regarding my 2224. I was doing the usual water change routine where I will turn off the filter before doing the water change and powering it up again.
Got a shock when the filter started giving a loud rattling noise where it was running silent for the past 1 month. I turned it off and on a couple of times before the noise was very much reduced. However there is still a little vibration/noise when I go very close to the filter. Previously when I put my ear to the filter, I can't even detect a thing.
Just wondering if it's time to clean the filter? I thought it can go for between 3-6 months before requiring a clean up? Of course subject to the tank condition. But it's just been a month since I got it running.
I opened up the filter and the fine white filter pad does look quite dirty and is a light brownish color. But was not sure if I should do a thorough cleaning from the coarse black filter to the mechanical rings etc... or should I spread it out(ie. wash one compartment each time only)? Or for that matter, what is the sequence, mechanical rings first or fine filter first?
Also I noticed the sound/vibration goes softer when I turn on the output to the maximum(all these while I've been running on half only) which supports my suspicion that there is too much gunk in the filter which is restricting the flow and making the noises.
Can anyone provide any advice or suggestions? Many thanks.
My 2224 makes these sounds when it's sponge inlet prefilter is cloaked up .means water flow not fast enough and there are bubbles that is stuck inside due to the weak flowrate and cannot be expelled through the outlet.
Thanks bro xconnect, will try to clean that up tomorrow..
@xconnect: suppose the point of CO2 injection is arranged to be before the canister filter, in your experience, do it result in too much air (in this case, carbon dioxide) trapped in the canister filter too frequently (causing heavy wear-&-tear to the impeller)?
Erm not that is because my inlet quite near my sponge filter so sometime the bubbles will get sucked in. Co2 the bubbles very fine so should won't get affected.
If you're using an inline CO2 diffuser, than yes, it'll result in CO2 trapped in the canister that may cause large "burps" occasionally. Better to have it after
Noted; any comments with regards to the "broken" 2073 part?
I do not recalled any such "pins" on my 2078 and I can see no function in having such a pin in that location. I went through the Eheim drawings for Pro 3 but did not see anything there either.
Since it sits into the top tray, you may be able to infer something from looking to see if there's any holes on the tray side? The tear drop shaped area is for water returning from the media trays and I suspect, related to how the priming lever works. It's simply a sealed empty area with a one-way valve/flap.
My guess is that what you've pointed out is just an artifact leftover from the plastic molding process.
I'll open up my 2078 and check tonight.
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