Our Own Meeting Place - Is that a good idea or what?

[timebomb]

Hi, folks,

An old friend visited me yesterday afternoon. For various reasons, I won't reveal his identity so let's just call him O for the time being. O is a fish shop owner and his shop has been around for about 3 years. I believe very few of you would have ever been to his shop because O is kind of a laid-back person so although he has been in the fish business for a few years, chances are you have never visited his shop or even heard of it.

Anyway, O came up with a proposal yesterday. He's very interested in killies so he offered the use of his premises to help us spread the hobby around. O is doing some renovation work in his shop now and when it's ready in a few weeks time, there will be a hobbyists' corner with a cafetaria attached.

Honestly, I think it's a grand idea. We can have our own "meeting place" in his shop where hobbyists can exchange ideas, chit chat or trade, buy and sell items like killifish, aquatic plants and killifish eggs.

O's shop is located somewhere around the Bukit Timah area but it's not in a shopping centre. His shop, however, is very large and would be a cool place for us to hang out.

O is a magnanimous person with a big heart. He even offered to give us free tank space to display our fish but frankly, I don't think that's a good idea. The lesson I learnt after being around for so many years is that nothing comes for free. Someone has to pay the rent :wink:

So I suggested to O that instead of giving us free tank space, he should take a cut whenever we sell items in his shop. As far as I know, hobbyists participating in auctions organised by fish clubs usually have to
pay a certain percentage of their sales to the clubs which organised the auctions so it would be fair to give O his percentage when we sell our killifish and eggs in his shop. How much would the percentage be would be left to O to decide, of course.

Having a fixed meeting place would be good for many of us because I know quite a few guys here who have more fish and eggs than they can handle. Selling excess fish and eggs through this forum is one way of collecting back some money for our efforts but that would involve allowing strangers into your house sometimes. I know not everyone is comfortable with this.

A fish shop which allows us to sell our excess fish and eggs in their premises would be the perfect solution because we can spread the species around without having to let strangers come into our houses.

When O's shop is ready, I intend to call for a gathering in his premises. In the meantime, I would appreciate it very much if you all can give me your feedback on this. If you have any suggestions on how things can be worked out better between O and this forum, please bear in mind that your suggestions would have to serve O's interests as well. In other words, we shouldn't expect O to give us too many things for free. He has to pay rent too and if he finds us to be a big burden, the "meeting place" idea would eventually be washed out. That wouldn't serve anyone's interest for sure.

O is aware of the existence of this forum and he will probably be reading your posts but don't let that scare you. O is a nice guy and he's open to ideas. He's a bit shy though so he may not say anything here. But let's hope he will take part in the discussion.

Just in case any of you think I'm going commercial, let me clarify that I have no commercial interest in O's fish business. As far as I'm concerned, O is a friend and his proposal sounds good to me because it will help to kick off a killifish scene here.

This forum, unlike almost all other fish forums in Singapore, is not commercially sponsored by any business or company. I like to keep it that way :wink:

Loh K L

[CM Media]

Sounds great.

I was actually trying to workout with a shop to use his place to guide those who are interested to start on this hobby. The farm have about 6 4ft planted tanks for me to display my excess killifish and this seems to reach out to another crowd of keen hobbyist who usually don't use the internet. Response so far so good. :wink: But due to the fact it's a farm and access to that area is a bit difficult for the public. That's why I'm still wondering whether should I spend my alternate weekend to exchange ideaswith those who are keen on killifish with my limited knowledge.

With Mr O allowing us to use his shop as a gathering place, I'll definately be a regular visitor there. I 100% agree to Kwek Leong that we should give Mr O a certain percentage if we were to trade our fish and eggs there.

With a common meeting place, this will definately create more awareness of these magnificent fish and even spread the hobby faster.

To show your support and our appreciation to Mr O's effort, do drop a line here. :wink:

[imported_lily]

To show your support and our appreciation to Mr O's effort, do drop a line here. :wink:

I am poor at words but I think this idea is good and if you guys do hold any gathering there, dont leave me out!

[francis]

count me in.it`s a great idea

[cks]

Loh,
They have this in the states and the clubs there meet in the hobbist's house. A gret idea to meet and see other hobbist eye 2 eye rather than an imaginary face on the screen .
However you many want to check with the authorities whether it is legal as a gathering of 5 or more persons constitues a lawful/unlaful assembly.Morever if we do give this club a name we may have to register it with the Registry of Societies. No point getting into trouble with the law. Better work things out .
I look forward to meeting others interested in this hobby.
DECKS

[timebomb]

Dennis,

We are not registering a club and believe me, it's perfectly alright and legal to have a gathering of more than 5 persons.

I know many people have pointed out this archiac law that our government has, that it's illegal to hold gatherings. I'm not sure if there is really such a law but take it from me, even if such a law exists, the government would never enforce it. You must understand that ours is a very "kiasu" government so they will write the law in such a way that it encompasses everything and give themselves absolute power.

For instance, do you know that up till recently, holding tupperware parties is illegal too. And it isn't because there were more than 5 housewives in the party that makes it illegal but rather, it's because tupperware parties were a form of "pyramid selling".

The law against illegal assembly of 5 persons or more, if such a law exists, must have been passed through parliament during the sixties when racial riots broke out and things generally were very unstable. Why the heck they still keep this law in modern day Singapore is beyond me. If we were to abide by this crazy law, it would mean anyone who holds a birthday party, a house-warming gathering or even a wedding would be breaking the law.

Don't worry. Even if a hundred people turn up at the gathering, no law will be broken. The police will only turn up if things get rowdy and the neighbours complain. I'm sure I can trust you all to behave yourselves, right? :wink:

Prime Minister Goh said during his last National Day rally speech that unlike before when anything that is not specifically stated as legal isn't allowed, now anything that is not specifically stated as illegal will be allowed. So we should listen to our Prime Minister. Since no government officer has ever publicly stated that gatherings of 5 persons or more are illegal, we should take it that it's perfectly alright to hold such gatherings.

Although I may sound critical of our government, I really don't want this to turn into a political discussion. Just believe me when I say - it's perfectly legal. Trust me, I was a civil servant for more than 30 years.

Loh K L

[FC]

Everyone knows that famous $500 fine for throwing litters but have you ever heard of anyone get a summon for it? If you did, it is as good as stirking a big lottery.

Many laws here are made to scare rather than enforce and it proved to be effective though I have to say they make us look uncivilised/silly. Many of my foreign colleagues who came here would first ask me what is allowed because these knowlegeable people often read enough before they visit a country. What they read scared them, there seems to be no human rights here to them. I often replied them with standard answer "experience them yourself".

These guys, after living for a few weeks/months before they head home, they began to like how things are ran here. They do not feel restricted in any way, instead, they felt more freedom here as they enjoy relatively crime-free environment. They lives as per normal (except no smoking in many places and expensive beers) and they GATHER very often, more than 5x3! Trouble? Or should I ask have you ever heard anyone caught for decent gatherings?

So... let's meet! Kwek Leong, count ME in!

I am not discussing politics here and I do not encourage it. Not that it is not unethical but I personally felt it can goes out of hand easily and create unecessary differences among forumers here. So, let's be sensitive to one another when we do discuss.

[zmzfam]

I definitely support the idea of a gathering place - get to know the killie keepers and exchange information.

Giving O a cut of the transactions done by the hobbyist is fair enough - he has to survive also and if he can't support the place, no place for us to meet.

So, KL, let us know the details further when the time comes.

Off-Topic

This forum, unlike almost all other fish forums in Singapore, is not commercially sponsored by any business or company. I like to keep it that way

I like the way this forum is going on, civilised and to the point. Unlike some forum(s) where flamings and accusations are abundants.

[cks]

Loh,
Just like what zmzfam said, let's go for it !
Just wanted to be a bit cautious .

[Eric Yeo]

Loh, great idea. let's go for it !

[gweesm1]

I like the idea, a place for killiefish hobbyists to meet up. We can even hold workshops and talks on killiefish.

About selling our excess killiefish, I prefer to let O handle it rather the hobbyists, we can sell to him at a comfortable rate and he sell it off to anyone of us here or his walk in customers. I anticipate there will be people trying to bypass him and make other arrangements to prevent him from getting his commission. I don’t wish things to turn ugly, as conflicts will tend to happen when it come to dollars and cents.

My opinion
No transaction should be done between hobbyists at his shop as to protect O’s interest. I don’t wish anyone of us to take advantage of O.

Regards,

[timebomb]

Loh,
Just like what zmzfam said, let's go for it !
Just wanted to be a bit cautious .

It's always good to be cautious, Dennis. You have a right to be concerned as our government can be overly strict at times. I hope I didn't sound like I was insensitive to your feelings when I said the law was crazy. Please remember that I have nothing against you or your opinions. But I have an axe to grind with the government sometimes. Their rules make me mad

My opinion
No transaction should be done between hobbyists at his shop as to protect O’s interest. I don’t wish anyone of us to take advantage of O.

I think that would be a good idea but I would leave it to O to make the final decision. It's his shop after all and he should have the final say.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

So, KL, let us know the details further when the time comes.

Zulkifli,

I will let you all know O's identity and the location of his shop when he's ready. We have to give him some time to work things out as he's new to killies and his shop is still undergoing renovation. I apologise for keeping his identity a secret. I'm doing this because people in the business have their interests to protect so until he says so, I cannot reveal who he is.

It would be best, of course, if he reveals his identity himself. I've already informed him of the posts here and I hope he will sign up on this forum and take part in the discussion.

Loh K L

[cks]

Loh,
No I do not feel that there was 'mala fide' in your reply. Let it pass and we will all meet and enrich one another with our experiences . Hope this meeting will be a sharing session with everyone on a level playing field. No experts here just everyone with a passion for the hobby and an interest to share. Life is too short to carry such a baggage. Let's go for it

[sard]

Although I don not have much time, but still ON for me. .

[ronnielim]

not yet start to keep killies can join boh ??

[timebomb]

not yet start to keep killies can join boh ??

You are welcomed to the gathering of course as the whole idea of having a meeting place is so that we can get to meet each other. But it would be good if we know your real name.

Loh K L

[FC]

Modena,

Welcome, the forum is open to everyone.

MR Loh KL is the site owner whom I knew for 4 years had channelled alot of effort in bringing awareness of killies and aquatic hobby. He was the one that brought me into the planted tank hobby. And best of all he sticks to the "non-commercial" principle of running this forum. That is one of the important reason, other than the well designed and informative website, for many who are here. A truely nice place for hobbyists to discuss their aquatic past time, make friends and even to exhange/trading excess fishes, equipment. Therefore, when Mr Loh asked me to help in moderating the "planted" forum, I agreed without hestitation and feels honoured to be part of his process.

I can see increasing new members, like you, every week which I take as a vote of acquiesce. Some say life is a journey, if that's true, welcome to this part of the trip.

So, can you give us a short introduction of yourself?

[kc]

Great idea! Count on me!

[ronnielim]

intro...

err....
I and SARD(aka Terry) same company..
I more on planted tanks... but now got one spare tank to play around after i give my lor han to Terry....
no big tank for me.... 2.5 ft planted only...
anyway i will start pestering the sard for some killies....hehehehehe....he jialat liao....

like that can ???