Advertisements
Aquatic Avenue Banner Tropica Shop Banner Fishy Business Banner
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Please don't make Such Comments on LFS

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hougang Singapore
    Posts
    236
    Feedback Score
    0

    Please don't make Such Comments on LFS

    Advertisements
    Fresh n Marine aQuarium Banner

    Advertise here

    Advertise here
    Hi all,

    I was going through a post in a local forum mentioning about the price of a LFS was ridiculously high and along the way there were few other comments make.

    I strongly feel that they have a reason why certain things are price that way. Have you thought of their overhead as compared to other shops? How about their rentals?? I guess we have to be sensitive when it comes to making such comments before getting yourself into trouble.

    If you feel that it is expensive, don’t buy. Loh always tell me that internet is without border, who knows the shop owners are actually looking at these post? Bear in mind to a shop owner that is a very strong statement, this statement will affect his/her business. Please note that there is way to find out who you are even though you are using a nick. I think Loh verify this. (if you sign on as 2 person here, the moderators will know)

    Let me share something that happened to me 1.5 years ago, I was like them, commenting on a poor service and pricing of a LFS. The post went on and went on and nearly out of control until a brother told me off and advise me to take a look at the APD case. After going through the case, I was very panic as I wasn’t aware that I shouldn’t make such comments on a public forum. I tried to contact the moderator to take down the post, however he did not reply. Fortunately nothing happen to me. (Thank God the forum wasn’t popular)

    A couple of months back when I first met Loh, he told me more about the APD case and one local case where he played the role of a the mediator. I was so glade that someone told me off before things go out of hand. He has save me from getting into trouble.

    Sometimes I wonder if that guy is Loh or Ronnie…. Cause not many locals here know about the APD case. If I was ever sued or make to apologize on all local new paper, I would probably give up this hobby. Please don’t think that I am an old man, I am just like many of you, in my mid twenties. I just hope non of us here will get into such troubles.

    Regards,
    Gwee Sia Meng
    AKA 08742
    SAA 163
    Fish List

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,702
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: Please don't make Such Comments on LFS

    Quote Originally Posted by gweesm1
    Sometimes I wonder if that guy is Loh or Ronnie….
    If you are talking about who almost got sued, that was Ronnie. But that's all "water under the bridge" now. That incident happened many years ago and I'm quite sure Ronnie doesn't want to talk about it any more. In any case, everything was settled amicably. In fact, Ronnie and the guy who almost sued him are now friends.

    But it's good to be aware of the fact that you can be hit with a lawsuit if you say something libellous on the net. In Singapore, the law is such that if a defamatory post is sent to more than one person, it will be deemed to be libellous. A forum can have hundreds or thousands of members so defamatory posts sent to forums would obviously qualify.

    But I would say that shouldn't stop anyone from complaining about bad service. Just be careful when doing so on the net. Avoid using words like "rip-off" or "cut-throat" because these words imply there's some cheating involved. Bad service does not equate to cheating. Bad service is simply.....err, .....bad service

    Whatever you say, however, you need not be afraid if you're telling the truth. In any libel suit, the first line of defense is truth.

    Loh K L

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Choa Chu Kang, Singapore
    Posts
    3,148
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore

    Re: Please don't make Such Comments on LFS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sia Meng
    Sometimes I wonder if that guy is Loh or Ronnie….
    Loh is too smart for that, so it's gotta be me :wink:

    Seriously tho, and on a technical standpoint based on Commercial Law, if that matter was brought up to our local courts, I'm not likely to lose. However, a long drawn battle would surely exhaust me, both morally and financially... and that's not good either!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwek Leong
    If you are talking about who almost got sued, that was Ronnie. But that's all "water under the bridge" now. That incident happened many years ago and I'm quite sure Ronnie doesn't want to talk about it any more. In any case, everything was settled amicably. In fact, Ronnie and the guy who almost sued him are now friends.
    Kwek Leong, I have no skeletons in my closet and have no qualms about the issue being brought up. It serves as a reminder to the 'loud-mouths' of real consequences and also reinforces the reason about HOW we sign off, particularly in THIS forum. It removes anonymity behind the keyboard and fosters goodwill amongst those who chose to participate.

    As far as that incident is concerned, I'm glad that you, 'Loh the lurker' and a complete stranger, decided to mediate.

    For those who can doubt Kwek Leong's no-nonsense approach, he actually offered his home to disgrunted strangers as neutral ground, to iron out the issue between his friend and a group of forumers, including myself.

    When it turned out to be a 'no-show' for the other whiners, that worked to my advantage, as I could have that person's undivided attention in resolving the differences. That meeting went very well and the rest was as they say, history (even tho I still think that Loh has a few loose nuts to take the risks with that meeting! ).

    Sia Meng (and the rest), should one need to address a problem in a public forum or email list, do apply a generous dose of diplomacy and choose your words with extreme care. Substantiate your post with facts and not posting for the sake of adding fuel to fire. Any statement or allegations made, can and will be, subjected to misinterpretation (worse, if it's used against you!).

    In the event that the 'accused' propose a face-to-face meeting, stand up to it and don't back off with lies... it doesn't get you anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwek Leong
    Whatever you say, however, you need not be afraid if you're telling the truth. In any libel suit, the first line of defense is truth.
    I couldn't have said it any better myself and oh... do I get royalties for re-runs of this episode?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Bukit Batok
    Posts
    8,790
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    9
    Country
    Singapore
    i for one have seen such episodes take place online, albeit with a less confrontational approach. there are several people online who have no qualms about shooting their mouths off without taking into consideration the consequences and after-effects of their comments.

    talking about lfs, i've had several conversations with some shopowners who speak about people who compare prices rather openly. in fact, some have said that there are people who actually go up to them and say that their prices are too high and that another shop offers a cheaper price. perhaps these people do not know that the basic aspect of starting a business is to make money and the best way is by increasing the profit margins. perhaps when these "bargain-hunters" start their own businesses then they'll understand how these shopowners feel.

    there are others too who compare prices with overseas prices. how is it possible to compare when the exchange rates are variable and change almost constantly? the price of a certain fish like say, in the States may be more expensive than the same fish in the UK. but the next day, the price of the fish in the States may just be slightly cheaper than the UK ones. and yet there are others who are willing to fly to overseas locations to obtain certain fish. these others are a rare few who are willing to spend more money just to get a fish u can practically get in SG (provided there is a supplier with the fish). and their main reason? cos its cheaper overseas. but i think with the added airfare, the economy of such a decision is rather low unless the person him/herself gets more than what he/she requires and sells the extra fish off at a profit or at cost price to recoup as much money as possible. (i personally don't think that this is the time to haggle about discounts, especially when the other party has put in alot of effort to obtain these fish).

    and another facet of the whole forum thing, especially in other aquatic forums (doesn't include this one cos at least we've got some level-headed individuals here :wink: ) is the ubiquituous Mr-Know-It-All. i believe everyone here has met with such "intellectuals" who have been known to stoop to poison-penned words and veiled barbs just to gain the upper hand in arguments over subjects like the species ID and even breeding methods.

    in all, i believe that with proper anger management and reining in our combative sides, we all can live in a system where our hobby is not entangled with legal issues and public bust-ups over pricing and whatnot.
    perhaps in our over-zealousness to obtain the best fish at the best prices we all end up none-too-wiser when we degenerate into open verbal warfare with shop owners over pricing.

    just my views (everyone else can agree or disagree. doesn't bother me either way :wink: )
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Bukit Batok
    Posts
    8,790
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    9
    Country
    Singapore
    oh yes, just to add, there is the petty kind of hobbyist out there. they get offended by your not-so-nice remarks about some matters and they immediately begin to dislike you and distance themselves from you. perhaps these people haven't realised that for our hobby to grow is for us to learn from each other, even arguments included. cos sometimes we do learn more when other stuffs are raised during properly conducted discussions (which can end up into an argument at times..)

    and yes, i believe everyone here (or at least a few others) have at one time or another offended someone over some issues (intentionally or unintentionally). perhaps everyone should forgive and forget.. like ronnie and the man who wanted to sue him.

    (well ronnie, no royalties for you but i must say.. at least u've got the guts to actually meet the person. :wink
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,702
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore
    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    perhaps in our over-zealousness to obtain the best fish at the best prices we all end up none-too-wiser when we degenerate into open verbal warfare with shop owners over pricing.
    Just in case anyone thinks that Ronnie was involved in some war with a fish shop owner over pricing, let me state here that the whole episode had nothing to do with prices. Ronnie wasn't comparing prices. Neither was he complaining about high prices. In fact, Ronnie didn't even make a complaint at all. All he did was he wrote an enquiry to the seller asking why a product he ordered hasn't arrived yet. It's like if you order something from a dot.com web site and after a few weeks, you don't see the product you ordered, you would probably want to know why. That was exactly what Ronnie did.

    I won't go into the details as it would embarass certain parties. But let's just say that sometimes even when one is careful and conscientious, bad things can happen. I'm glad I was there and although I didn't know Ronnie at that time, I'm happy to have played a part to save his skin

    There's a lesson in here for everyone who uses the internet. Ronnie was lucky not to get sued but there are many others who weren't as lucky. On the APD, many subscribers were sued by a overly-litigious individual. A few had to fork out thousands of dollars to settle the lawsuits.

    In Ronnie's case, if he was sued, many Singaporeans would have been hit with lawsuits too because the whole matter was blown up on a mailing list. Although Ronnie was innocent of making any libellous or malicious comments, there were a few subscribers on that mailing list who weren't as innocent. I know some of them were just students at that time and these guys didn't even know they were almost slapped with libel lawsuits.

    The most important lesson I learnt from Ronnie's episode and the APD's was that if you're in charge of a forum or a mailing list, it becomes your duty to ensure lawsuits never happen. That's the reason I'm here all the time. I may not reply to every query or take part in every discussion but you can be rest assured I read every post.

    Loh K L

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    354
    Feedback Score
    0
    Images
    4
    Country
    Singapore
    I feel ashamed as I did commented on the price of the product selling at one LFS before. After reading all the posts, I will try not to make the same mistake anymore.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,702
    Feedback Score
    0
    Country
    Singapore
    Quote Originally Posted by Pohsan
    I feel ashamed as I did commented on the price of the product selling at one LFS before
    There's nothing to be ashamed of, Poh San. We all make mistakes. Just learn from it and move on. I've made my fair share of "internet mistakes" too. I've been in everything from minor skirmishes to flame wars.

    To add on to what I've said earlier, it's the duty of forum owners and moderators to make sure things don't go out of hand. Many internet users are young people so they can plead ignorance but forum owners and moderators should know better.

    Loh K L

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •