On a quest! - Narrow Leaf Java fern wall

[tony.ch]

Hello all,
I was searching through the archives about narrow leaf java fern in another aquatic plant forum. I came across a message written by a Freddy about growing a wall of narrow leaf java fern. I believe this Freddy now frequents this forum and would like to ask some questions about this wall. Iam in the planning stage of a new tank and would like to incorporate the idea if I can find out a decent way to go about it.

How do you go about constructing these walls? Do you tie the rhizomes to a mesh? I can't imagine what else to use - maybe cork. Also which way do the leaves face? Surely they grow up to the light or does it depend on which way you tie them on. I would be grateful for anyone's input or even better a picture of such a wall would be much appreciated.
Thanks for any help
Tony C-H

[FC]

Tony,

I had done that on plastic mesh but it was not perfect. I suggest that you do the followings:

1) You need only a single sheet of plastic mesh.

2) For the plants with rhizomes, tie them using fine fishing line onto the mesh and on the side that face the away from the wall. In this way, no (minimum) leafs will grow between the mesh and the glass wall.

3) For leafs already with buds, weave them between the mesh's poforated holes.

Leave about 3 inch blank at the top of the wall as it would be covered by the plants below this line eventually.

[tony.ch]

Freddy,
I have four rhizomes each with about fifteen to twenty leaves on. None of the leaves have new buds growing out of them. Some of my true java fern does this but only when it is refused adequate light. Is there another way to induce this growth? Also when you divide rhizomes how smaller bits can you split them into?

Thanks for your help.
Do you know of a picture someone might have on the internet of such a wall? It would be great to see one. Finally do you think its possible to grow this wall without it looking patchy?
Cheers
Tony

[RonWill]

Tony,

I edited the header so that it shows better on the index page and also it's easier to keep track of topics.

I've not tried a full fern wall but when my attempt to grow a nice java moss wall*1 failed miserably, and ended up looking like an algae wall instead, that was when I tore it down and started searching for other alternatives.

While there's a few scattered pieces of narrow java fern growing on driftwood in my tanks, it's probably insufficient for a wall-piece. So I bought me some regular broad-leaved variety and will work on it over the weekend, family permitting! :wink:

It was timely you asked and further to your questions for Freddy, let me add in mine as well;

1. Instead of fine nylon line to secure down the rhizomes, is there any disadvantage in using black cable-ties, in it's smallest size? (I've got fat grubby fingers!)

2. Why a single sheet of preforated nylon instead of sandwiching the rhizomes in between two?

3. How far should the rhizomes be spaced?

3. What prevents the leaves from going brown? I too, have a 'tiny' problem in keeping them lush and green. Injected CO2 is about 3 bubbles every 2 seconds and 5ml of TMG*2 dosed every weekend, after 20% water change. Oh... tank dimension is 24Lx16Wx16H.

*1 Moss sandwiched between 2 sheets of nylon grids, with coarse sponges for windelov/java fern to root in.

*2 I didn't follow the printed TMG dosing as I was told that it encourages algae growth. Presently, it's about 20% of recommended dosing.

[FC]

See the java fern wall a week after setup in May 03.


The rhizomes can be cut into pieces, as long there are 2 ~ 3 buds of leafs grow on it, it should be fine.

1) There is no real disadvantage, only that you need longer time for the plant to grow and camoflague it.

2) Single mesh sheet minimise the thickness of this harness which give more space for the display/plant area (every mm is precious to me). It is not moss wall were you have no other practical method than netting them.

3) It is subjective and depends on how much of the plant you have (expensive and hard to come by). I space them according to the amount I have which end up about 3 inch apart. They ended up growing dense enough that I cannot see the mesh.

4) This plant is not easy in my encounter. It is a very slow grower and turn dark green/brown if condition is not right. I have this problem and after about 2 months of setup, I trim them to the shortest possible to stimulate the growth and improve the quality. It took about 2 months to grow back with healthy light green leafs but smaller. I suspect that I cut too short. Sam Yick has the best looking java fern I had seen, they cut but left about 1 inch from rhizomes. I had measured their tanks' parameters, they keep the iron high at 0.5~0.8 ppm, nitrate at 5 ppm, the potassium is probably about 10 ppm. Cooler water (25~26 degree celcius) is another important factor that help keep their tanks in top condition. For iron, get the taiwanese brand (white bottle with blue label) sold in their shop, cheap and good. Dose according to instruction and do it once a week. Continue the TMG or trace elements but only during water change (once a week or fortnight).

[timebomb]

Ronnie,

I have never tried growing a fern wall but the narrow leaf java ferns were growing quite well in my tanks when I had them. It's better to use a single sheet of plastic mesh than two because it won't become a death trap for fishes. Using one is cheaper too as the mesh can be quite expensive. Unlike moss which is soft, the rhizomes of the ferns are quite tough and they can be weaved through the holes of the netting.

I was using cable ties to secure the mesh for my christmas moss wall when I first started but realised they rust after a while. But maybe the extra iron would be good for your plants

As far as I know, if you don't keep the temperature below 28 C, the ferns will turn brown.

I've been bugging Freddy to grow a new Fern wall and document the progress with pictures. I think it should make a good web page.

Loh K L

[tony.ch]

Freddy,
The picture is amazing, it looks really good. Did you ever get to finish the whole of the back wall? Anyway, it's inspired me and given me a goal for my new tank.

I originally had a chrimas moss wall made with moss kindly donated by Loh K L. I made it in the same way shown on this web site and it grew quite quickly to my surprise. Unfortunately I went away on holiday for a month and disaster struck - my moss wall was now an algae wall. I saved some of the moss and is being cultivated on a window sill. Although, now in the Uk there is a mail order company that supplies christmas moss.

Anyway, when I get my new tank fully functioning I will give the fern wall ago. I think it will be a bit more stable than the moss wall - if I have to go away again.
Cheers Tony

[RonWill]

See the java fern wall a week after setup in May 03.

Freddy, your pic ain't showing...

3) It is subjective and depends on how much of the plant you have (expensive and hard to come by). I space them according to the amount I have which end up about 3 inch apart. They ended up growing dense enough that I cannot see the mesh.

Whatever narrow java fern I have were from Kwek Leong, including those 'dead' ones that he wanted to throw away.

I'm not particular whether it's the regular or narrow fern... I just didn't want another algae wall!! Broad leafed fern is cheaper and more readily available, which was why I considered it.

Which Sam Yick LFS branch are you referring to? Perhaps I should drop by and draw some inspiration from there. But I'll take your recommendation, going with the printed TMG dosage. I should mention that I don't measure anything in the tank and neither am I using trace elements! If you can provide (or hint) the brand of the Iron, I'd appreciate it.

The following months should be cooler if water temperature is so critical... guess I shouldn't be procrastinating.

I have never tried growing a fern wall...

Don't! With your grubby green fingers, you'd probably make me jealous all over again!

I was using cable ties to secure the mesh for my christmas moss wall when I first started but realised they rust after a while.

Sorry, but I think you're referring to something else. The cable-ties I'm planning to use is all plastic, which is shown in my failed attempt of a moss wall.

I've been bugging Freddy to grow a new Fern wall and document the progress with pictures. I think it should make a good web page.

Yeah, that's a very good idea... but if Freddy needs to work on a "guinea pig tank", I can volunteer mine... hint hint :wink: <waving both hands wildly in the air, so that Freddy will notice!>

[tony.ch]

Ronnie,
If you right click your mouse on the red cross, where the picture should be and then go to properties it gives you the pictures url address. You can use this address to see the picture.

Thought it might help
cheers
Tony

[timebomb]

Ronnie,
If you right click your mouse on the red cross,

Is it just me but I can't see any red cross in Freddy's post. I can't see his picture either.

Tony, did I send you the Christmas Moss? I sent the moss to so many people I can't remember who they are. But if you reveal your full name, I might just recall.

Loh K L

[woodduck]

I like the idea of having a narrow leaf fern wall.But if only you can get the fern to cover the whole plastic mesh, I just felt that the finishing product will not be able to match the look of the christmas moss wall.

It will be better getting the narrow leaf fern tie to the driftwoods and pile it up to achieve the Wall look.This will look more nature and no fishes will get trap.

Eric Ng

[FC]

Which Sam Yick LFS branch are you referring to?

They do not have fern wall but they tie them to long wood block and let it stand on the substrate. Nearly all branches have it, look closer.

If you can provide (or hint) the brand of the Iron, I'd appreciate it.

I cannot remember, it is something like "ist" brand. You will not miss it, it is white bottle with blue label and not expensive - typical taiwanese price. Joel, the boss's son and the tanks' care taker, use it on his tanks as supplement to the core Dennerle range that he uses.

Don't! With your grubby green fingers, you'd probably make me jealous all over again!

Yap, you got him. KL, please put a stop at your moss wall - see no further, please.

I was using cable ties to secure the mesh for my christmas moss wall when I first started but realised they rust after a while.

Once upon a time, cable ties are made of steel wire covered with plastic...KL, please update and use the plastic ones.

Yeah, that's a very good idea... but if Freddy needs to work on a "guinea pig tank", I can volunteer mine

Can do.

I like the idea of having a narrow leaf fern wall.But if only you can get the fern to cover the whole plastic mesh, I just felt that the finishing product will not be able to match the look of the christmas moss wall.

You are half right. It looks better on bigger (4ft or more) and wider (2ft or more) tanks due to its' leafs' size. However, unlike moss, fern has the advantage of self-regulating in growth (will not overgrow each other) and thus less maintenance. If thinning is required, you just need to cut off the leafs. Fish trap is unavoidable with mesh, sad to say, but it rarely happen.

[tony.ch]

Hello Loh K L
Yes, you did, very generously, send me some moss. I e-mailed you primarily to get some narrow leaf java fern, but you kindly sent me some moss aswell. It was a while ago now - while you were collecting for the defense fund.

Anyway, love the web-site, and when are we going to see an erect moss wall?

Cheers
Tony

[RonWill]

Yeah, that's a very good idea... but if Freddy needs to work on a "guinea pig tank", I can volunteer mine

Can do.

Freddy, many heartfelt thanks!!! You probably don't know what this means to me as I've never quite gotten the whole aquaplant thing on my finger tips.

While I do reasonably well with plants that are out of the water, those in the tank are... urm... a different story!

I know it's difficult to work without tools and other gizmos, so please advise what I need to prepare.

If tesk kits are a must, I think I've some Phosphate and Nitrate kits somewhere in my 'toy box' but do these things have a expiry date?

In case you haven't been to my moss wall page, a couple of thing you ought to know... I'm using a Eheim hang-on filter and the sun as my lightsource... direct for about an hour and ambient lighting, until sunset.

Also, I've been studying the earlier pic and while I can understand the space above the rhizomes for the leaves to fill it up, what's with the empty lower section of the plastic 'grid'... for the roots to hang down?

[FC]

If tesk kits are a must, I think I've some Phosphate and Nitrate kits somewhere in my 'toy box' but do these things have a expiry date?

They do have expiry date printed under the box, normally.
Frankly, test kits are useless unless there is problem arises like algae and stunted growth. It is meantonly to find out the cause. Bearable range is NO3 up to 15 ppm, PO4 up to 2ppm.

Get the parameters right instead, like fertilizing formulae (long story), right CO2 injection (2KH vs 6.4 PH), light (0.4~0.8 watts/litre) and photo-period (7~9 hrs), disciplined feeding.

[timebomb]

Hi, folks,

Dennis Cheong aka DECKS sent several pictures of his narrow leaf java fern wall. I'm uploading the best one.



Dennis, you have a jungle in there It's hard to tell where's the wall.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

and when are we going to see an erect moss wall?

I do have an Erect Moss wall, Tony. But contrary to my expectations, the wall doesn't look good. The fronds are stringy and because they grow upright, they don't look half as good as a Christmas Moss wall. I would post a picture but the wall is on one side of the tank and I could never take a good picture of it. I will be taking it down soon and the mosses there will be brought to the gathering.

If you want some, raise your hand. I give top priority to the regulars on this forum :wink:

Loh K L

[tony.ch]

Loh K l
When news of a new aquarium plant spreads it normally gets put straight on peoples' wish list. I believe this is especially true of mosses and foreground plants. From your pictures the erect moss looks very unique so, yes, it is of no surprise that I would like to get hold of some. As I am in the UK I am not able to come to the gathering but maybe if you have any left after the gathering or when you next have a surplus I may be able to buy some off you.
Cheers
Tony

[rthien]

Hi there,

May I know where I can get this Narrow Leaf Java Fern in Singapore? I won't be growing a wall but would love to grow it in the substrate. Looks quite nice!

Thanks in advance for letting me know!

Cheers,

Roger

[FC]

You may try Petmart at Serangoon, ask Karin of Far East, Keong Siong at Havelock. Call first, sometime you need to order.