Super Newbie is considering Killies :)

[BeyondGomer]

I have zero experience in keeping killies, but I am considering them. These will be for my new planted 30g cube (oceanic). I am open to suggestions.

Here are some considerations:
Want a killie that likes current over still water (plenty of water flow in the current tank)
Want a killie that stays in the upper 1/2 of the water or atleast isn't shy
Must get along with my other fish (and visa versa): Dwarf gourami, Neon Tetra, Otociclus, Siamese Algae Eater, Dario Dario, All sorts of shrimp
DON'T want an annual (I don't want to have to breed them yearly)

Tank conditions to consider:
KH,GH= 4-9 (~4 from oct to apri. 9 the rest of the year when the city changes water source)
pH=6.7-7.0
Temp=74-78
a moderately bright tank

So...with that in mind, does anyone have any recommendations...or should I look into another fish?

[Slaigar]

I am in the same boat as Gomer. We just cannot give up the water flow in our planted tanks!

I am hoping there are more non-annual Killies other than the "Golden Killie" that I always see around here.

[RonWill]

Dear Gomer and Mark,

The first killie that comes to mind is the popular Aphyosemion australe, which are tolerant of water conditions, water current and bright lights.

Being non-annuals and plant spawners, your java moss will be idea for breeding, provided the other tank inhabitants didn't snack on them. You don't need to deal with peat and long incubation either.

If the setup is densely planted, let nature takes it course, and there will be survivors hiding in the foliage or within the detritus near the gravel.

AUS display themselves well, not timid (as in hiding all the time) and makes good companions to the fishes that Gomer mentioned.

Given time, they can be trained to take non-live foods and they are, IMHO, alot nicer than the 'Golden Panchax/Killie'.

I'll add on to the list when time allows... (need to get back to work before my boss starts looking for me! :wink: )

[RonWill]

Forgot to add this...

If your tank has lotsa shadowed/overcast areas from overhanging broad leaves or floating plants, then the AUS Orange or Gold will show better since it'll contrast nicely with a darker background.

If the substrate is light in color and the tank is generally brightly lit, the AUS Chocolate will amaze you with it's deep, vibrant colors and nice finnage extensions (if they don't get into a brawl with others!). There are pictures of them in my photo tank page, as well as Kwek Leong's site.

The other 'guppy' of the killie world would be the Fundulopanchax species, like the Fp gardneri N'sukka. These are equally hardy, endowed with a palette of colors and does will in a planted tank... and non-annual, of course! :wink:

One shouldn't dismiss the genus Nothobranchius and Simsonichthys, just because they're annuals. Sure, they don't live as long but if you don't intend to breed them, their colors will amaze you... a comparable equivalent to marine counterparts, if I dare to say so myself!

With at least 700+ known species of killifishes, and new ones being described and introduced into the hobby, your shopping cart should be larger than K-Mart's... there's simply too many choices and that's what keep us all so fascinated and engrossed!!

[Slaigar]

Thank you for the information. I have seen some pictures of Nothobranchius and Simsonichthys (mostly on Aquabid) and they are definitely one of the most beautiful fish species. When it warms up here, I may think of ordering some eggs.

I did a little a searching and page species came up:
http://killi.co.uk/species.php
Quite an extensive list! Though I did come here primarily on the interest of the mosses, you may have just given me a new addiction (other than Cryptocorynes).

I got to wonder, how well do they fare with dwarf cichlids?

[RonWill]

When it warms up here, I may think of ordering some eggs.

Mark, since I'm 'marked' (pun intended) for your new addiction :wink: , I'll throw in another word of caution...

Dwarf cichlids, in general require acidic water, unless yours are acclimatized between neutral/alkaline. Nothobranchius species are more prone to Velvet infections and need salt addition to their water... your plants may not like it though (just thought of that ).

Though I did come here primarily on the interest of the mosses, you may have just given me a new addiction (other than Cryptocorynes).

Mosses can adapt to a wide range of water conditions and there's no reason why killies and mosses can't mix. How's that for a lethal addiction??

My fave quote from a friend; "Never try, never know" and if you prefer NIKE, they'll tell you... "Just do it!" :wink:

[timebomb]

I got to wonder, how well do they fare with dwarf cichlids?

Mark, I know little about Dwarf Cichlids but I believe they are known to be aggressive fishes, especially so when they spawn. If that is so, they may not co-inhabit well with Killies.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

Gomer,

I think what you are looking for is a Killie that does well in a planted tank. Right? Actually, many Killies will qualify but if you're a beginner with the fish, Aphyosemion australes are the best. Here's a pic of a tank I had recently.



Loh K L

[Ptarmigan]

Here's a pic of a tank I had recently

Thanks for posting the picture, that is inspirational ! I did not realise that killies (some killies ?) could be kept in a community like that.
How big is that tank, how deep the water ?
Could other types of killi be kept in there with them ?

I have only read about killies being kept isolated in small tanks as pairs and trios. But with your inspiration all sorts of things become possible, I have a 5ft x 15in x 15in (approx 1.5m x 40cm x 40cm) tank that could be made available for something like that and then I could use one or two small tanks for breeding/egg collecting ? What do you all think ?

Although I have been keeping fish for several decades ( gosh how time flies !!) I am totally new to killies and, like Mark, I only came here following the moss trail :-)

Best wishes,
Malcolm.

[Debbbear]

Mark wrote:
I got to wonder, how well do they fare with dwarf cichlids.

I have the P. kribensis of the dwarfs. If you have dwarfs of the same sex,you will be okay. They may fight among themselves some but will leave other fish alone,or if the dwarfs are young. But a spawning pair are very protective of their young and will fight who ever comes near their young.I have a tank just for my kribs.The male even attacks my hand when I go to do water changes!
Ron, also wrote about using salt for velvet. If your water is soft like mine(30 TDS 0r a hardness of 1) you must harden your water.Soft water and salt can kill fish!!!!and baby brine shrimp.
Nice picture,Loh K L

[Slaigar]

Well, I went and picked up my very first Killis: 3 Blue Panchax. I am thinking of placing them in a 2 gallon jug with plants. I was debating at the store for either these or 3 delphax cory's so I am hoping I made the right decision!

[RonWill]

Well, I went and picked up my very first Killis: 3 Blue Panchax.

Well done Mark! Welcome to the world of killies. BTW, do those 'Blue Panchax' look anything like this?

I am thinking of placing them in a 2 gallon jug with plants. I was debating at the store for either these or 3 delphax cory's so I am hoping I made the right decision!

Heh... with us, no choice of killies is ever wrong! Enjoy 'em but do keep a secure cover on the tank... these buggers can jump (very highly motivated to be inmortalized... ie. a dried crispie! ) and they're not finicky with food.

[timebomb]

How big is that tank, how deep the water ?
Could other types of killi be kept in there with them ?

Malcolm,

The tank is 24" (L) x 18" (W) x 18" (H). I fill the water almost up to the brim so the depth is around 17 inches or so. Ronnie would warn you about doing that but I believe that happy fish don't jump. :smile: It's hard to answer questions about keeping different species of killies together as there are many species and they have very different behaviour. Some are good community fish while others are best kept on their own. A few are so aggressive they will fight to the death even with their own kind.

I have only read about killies being kept isolated in small tanks as pairs and trios. But with your inspiration all sorts of things become possible, I have a 5ft x 15in x 15in (approx 1.5m x 40cm x 40cm) tank that could be made available for something like that and then I could use one or two small tanks for breeding/egg collecting ? What do you all think ?

Don't believe everything you read . I think what you are planning should work out just fine. If you going to keep Killies like the Fundulopanchax gardneri's, you won't even need the breeding tanks as they breed like crazy in planted tanks.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

Ron, also wrote about using salt for velvet.

You only have to worry about velvet disease if you are keeping the Nothobranchius. For some strange reason, Nothos are highly susceptible to velvet. Other Killies almost never get this disease even when they are in the same tank with Nothos that are in the advanced stages of velvet.

The only other fish I know that gets infected with velvet easily are the Bettas.

Loh K L

[zmzfam]

Ronnie would warn you about doing that but I believe that happy fish don't jump.

I'll second to what KL has wrote. My australes are in an open top aquaria and they do not jump. Hmm..maybe the males have enough females ?

It's hard to answer questions about keeping different species of killies together

One thing to note is that do not mix different species of the same genus together as they will hybridize - unless it is an all males tank. Same thing goes for Fundulopanchax and Aphyosemion group.

[Ptarmigan]

Hello everyone, thanks for your thoughts,
I saw Loh K L's reply and went off line to type up this reply, and now that I have returned to post it I see that Zulkifli has already addressed the hybridising issue that I was about to post about, so I note that the problem isnt just strains of species but also across species of the same genus,, OK. I got that, but may type some more about it in a minute :-)

So, anyway, herewith, my offline typings :-

It's hard to answer questions about keeping different species of killies together as there are many species (snip)

The question
Thanks for the info, yes, I see what you mean, but, err, that is not quite what I meant :-) , sorry, I did not express myself very well **, what I meant to say was :-
In that beautiful tank with your community of Aphyosemion australes are there any other killies ( genus or species ) which you would consider puting in there as suitable tankmates _with_ the A. australes ? if you see what I mean ?

Obviously I realise that it would not be a good idea to put different strains of A. australe in together because of crossbreeding if I was going to collect eggs or allow fry to develope in that tank. But for selecting fish to mate in another tank I suppose a mixed population of strains of one killie would be OK.
However, it is all a bit academic at the moment because here in SW England I hardly ever see any killies in my LFSs anyway :-(

other chat
Perhaps in the future we could maybe start other threads along the lines of "Hey guys&girls, recently I have been keeping X.y with Z.a and they seem to be happy" but it could get to be quite a lot of threads I guess, because of the range of different types and behaviours !

** I can usually handle numbers and charts and equations and calculus and things but my language and typing skills often are a bit limited !

best wishes,
Malcolm.

[Ptarmigan]

and here I am back again to express it a different way ! :-
,,, in your experience, have you ever kept any other type of killi in with A.australe ?
Perhaps you have never wanted to mix killies in larger tanks ?
Malcolm.

[timebomb]

in your experience, have you ever kept any other type of killi in with A.australe ?
Perhaps you have never wanted to mix killies in larger tanks ?
Malcolm.

Malcolm,

You guessed correctly. If I have a choice, I would never mix my killies but space constraints sometimes force me to do so. I've kept some species of Simps. with my australes but generally, the former won't do well as they are more timid. I would strongly advise against keeping the Fundulopanchax with any other species of Killies as they can be very aggressive.

With Killies, there's always the problem of hybridisation if you keep species of the same genus together. Hybridising Killies, by the way, is a sin to some serious hobbyists . However, if you keep species of different genus together, the problem you have to deal with is different behaviour. It's a Catch 22 situation. Either way, you're gonna have problems

Loh K L

[RonWill]

,,, in your experience, have you ever kept any other type of killi in with A.australe ?
Perhaps you have never wanted to mix killies in larger tanks ?

Malcolm, owing to 'limited' tank space, I have AUS Chocolate in the Simp. constanciae's tank and although the constanciae is about 2 inches, and much bigger than the AUS, they get along fairly well... except chow time, of course.

As I'm making room for new species, I've moved the young sub-adults around in the raising tanks and combined some of them;
Simp. constanciae/Ap. BIV Funge
Rivulus xiphidius/Terranatos dolichopterus

The females of Ap. exigoideum 'Ngoudoufola' and Ap. primigenium 'Kanda' looked similar and not as easy to distinguish, so I separated them... one at each end of the tank.

The Ap. BIT Ijebu Ode sub-adults + the 2 combos above are placed in between, in case the EXI or PRI decides to swap partitions.

In short, you can combine AUS with other species, if you have either all males or if the females are distinctively different.

[Slaigar]

Ron,
My Blue Panchax looks exactly like the ones on the page. Thank you for the plethora of information! I dont know what sex any of the 3 yet. They are still rather drab in color. I dont know if it was my eyes fooling me, but I did see a slight blue shine on one of them.