Terranatos dolichopterus

[CM Media]

Hi guys,

Sorry the poor image taken as I do not wish to disturb the pair breeding...

[timebomb]

That's an amazing fish, Au. I'm keeping my fingers crossed you get a lot of babies from them :smile:

Loh K L

[CM Media]

I too hope I can succeed on them. There is so little information on them and I'm working in the dark!!! Anyone who has experience on them would like to share?

I've collected about 30 eggs from the pair but it would take 6 months to incubate the eggs! What a long wait.....

Ronnie,

Hope to hear good news from you soon on the second batch of eggs you got...

[hwchoy]

Have you guys seen this A Hobbyist's Guide to South American Annual Killifish? It is in English, just ignore the first page. For Terranatos start from Page 90.

It has breeding instructions.

[hwchoy]

To make life easy for you guys I have quoted the relevant page…

A Hobbyist's Guide to South American Annual Killifish[/i]]Information on the genus Terranatos

Note: The males have dorsal and anal fin extensions. This fish is VERY timid. Keep the aquarium covered.

Size: Males up to 50 mm (with extentions), Females up to 35mm.

Disposition: In nature you can find Terr. dolichopterus hiding under leaves at the bottom of the annual killifish pond and some sort of cover or protection is needed for this species. It likes to jump a lot and can escape through any aquarium opening if the hole is large enough for it to get out of. It is not a very aggressive or territorial species and many males and females can be kept together in a spawning setup.

Water Conditions: The temperature should be between 75-80º F, 24-27º C degrees for maximum egg production and general good health. Salt does not have to be added to the water and it is probably better if it is left out. This species must have soft water in order for it to live a healthy life and for it to spawn properly. It deteriorates rapidly if kept in hard water and the egg production is quite low. The pH must be in the neutral to acidic range with 6.5 to 7.0 being optimum. Standard filtration can be used and maintenance should include 50% water changes per week using soft water for best health.

Breeding: A pair or trio can easily be kept in a 2.5 gallon, 10 liter aquarium. A larger aquarium can be used if necessary and then even more pairs could be added. Lighting should be indirect because this fish seems to be sensitive to direct lighting.

Spawn the fish in the usual annual killifish way with aged peat moss in some sort of spawning container. This species is a diver and a lot of peat moss and peat fibers should be used for optimum egg production. Other spawning mediums are not advisable. In nature, this fish is a bottom dweller so steps should be taken to provide places for the fish to hide in if necessary. This species is very prolific and you can expect to get about fifty eggs per week if the fish are happy and fed well.

Eggs & Fry: The eggs are very small to small in size (size 1-2), 1.0-1.25mm. The eggs are non-adhesive and can be easily seen in the peat moss. The collected eggs are dried and stored in peat moss @ 75-80º F, 24-27º C degrees for about fourteen weeks to about nine months @ 70-75º F, 21-24º C. Temperatures below 70º F, 21º C, are not recommended. If the temperature is too low then the eggs will not hatch out and the embryos will hibernate and die. The fry are small and require infusoria or microworms to start. Baby brine shrimp can be given to them after about five days. The fry are fast growers for their size and can sex out in about eight weeks. Frequent water changes are recommended.

Difficulty Rating: 4

[RonWill]

Ronnie, hope to hear good news from you soon on the second batch of eggs you got...

Wetted 2nd bag together with my 1st previously dunked bag of DOL... 4 days short of a full 4 month minimum incubation, and ended up with 17 frys!

More pics will follow...

[CM Media]

Wetted 2nd bag together with my 1st previously dunked bag of DOL... 4 days short of a full 4 month minimum incubation, and ended up with 17 frys!

That's really good news! I also collected about 35 eggs from my pair. Again, it'll be a long wait to see the results...

[RonWill]

Choy, thanks for the quoted text... I'm saving this into my harddisk!! Good stuff... can't afford to lose it! (did I say it'd be for personal reference? :wink: )

Au,
Here's a pic of the 17 frys.


I didn't have any 'oxygen stones', so I tried bubbling/high aeration in the hatching container... seems to work too! Whew!!

Transferred the fry to grow-out container with 'dirty' water.

... now if only I have extra time to update my DOL page.

[hwchoy]

Ronnie, don't save the quoted text, back one entry and you can see the link to the WHOLE document. Save THAT!

[killifishdavid]

So how are you guyz doin with the DOLI's ?? Any updates or questions I am here now and will offer any advise I can for you.

[RonWill]

David,

I'm glad you popped this up... my head is getting dizzy with these buggers!

If you recall, I acquired 2 bags of DOL eggs. The premature wetting of the 1st bag left me stumped, as per my DOL page.

Two weeks ago, 1st bag went through it's 3rd wetting and came up empty. I also wetted the 2nd bag and retrieved 17 frys, of which there are 14 survivors to date.

After a 3-day dunking, I combined peat from both collections and rebagged it for subsequent wettings. Peat is between Langton #3 & #4.

On Monday 8th, I transferred the 14 fry to the grow-out partition in my main tank. Largest fry is almost 1cm now while the rest is about 6mm. Of the 14, 5 are belly sliders

This morning, which is 2 weeks later after rebagging, I wetted the combined peat and will see tonight, if it throws out any fry.

BTW, the surviving 4 fry from the first wetting (all belly sliders) are apparently skewed toward males... hence, I won't be able to experiment to see if belly sliders' spawn will yield 'normal' frys

I'm crossing my fingers now that my remaining 9 'normal' fry will hopefully yield a pair.

Would really appreciate to know where I went wrong

[CM Media]

I'm having the same problem which Ronnie face. I only manage to get a pair from the bag of eggs and the rest are bellysliders. Consider they're annuals, the fry took about 4 months to grow into mature adults. Now the pair would only give me about 3 fertile eggs a week!

I keeping the fish in a dark tank with minium light and spawn them in peat. I realise even at the temperature of 28 deg C, the eggs takes about 5 months to develop!

[RonWill]

Au, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's losing hair over these DOLs.

The label on the bags mentioned 4~8 month incubation and I'm beginning to wonder if their 4th-month wetting is too soon! Good grief, if I have to sit out 6 months to see frys!... that ought to earn me a PhD in patience! or... if I'm breeding them commercially, I'd be broke!!

Perhaps having eyed-up eggs is not an indication for wetting. I don't know if further embryol development is necessary to avoid belly-sliding syndrome. Dr Barry Cooper has already debunked the hypothesis that hatchlings need to fill their lungs with air from the surface. (in my words, these d*mned fishes have gills and they're not bettas!).

Your mention of them being annuals make things even more interesting... it's unthinkable how this species will survive in their natural environment, to mature and propagate slowly.

Research on the net regarding DOLs is futile and even lesser is known about their natural habitat. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[RonWill]

Just wanted to add that I transferred 2 more DOL fry from the 2nd wetting of combined peat (040310). The fry looked 'normal'... in that they're swimming, not sliding. Perhaps this species do demand a longer incubation period!

My eyes aren't what they used to be and I can't find any eggs. I may be incubating 'empty' peat but no harm just following through, better safe than sorry. Will rebag it this Saturday, for another dip in two weeks' time (040327).

These may not be the most colorful killies around but are rather unique, with 'sail-like' unpaired fins and I'd want more in my tank.

Since Au isn't collecting enough of these eggs, I'll get another bag and incubate it an extra 2 months (ie. 6 months) and see how this batch turns out. (This time, I'll resist dunking... even if I see eyed up eggs!!)

David, if you have these sitting in the closet, please pop in a baggie with Bill's 'bus'. Thanks!

[killifishdavid]

I find your combined results rather interesting as well as confusing!!
In my hatchery the temps are a low of 68 to a high of 75 degrees F, with a closer average of 70 to 73 degrees F. At these temps I spawn and incubate the DOL with a great degree of success. I all ways wet the peat from DOL at 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 months for the first wet, first wet hatches yeild few if any fry, second and third wets at approx. 3 week intervals yeild larger hatches than the first. At this point regarding the hatching results:
we are at 5 to 6 months incubation from collection and have approx. 50%
of the total fry that will hatch from the peat. After the next 2 wettings the hatch will drop, and now at 6 1/2 to 8 months 90 to 95 % of the eggs contained in the peat will have hatched. You may get a few more fry up to 9 months but that is all. Now in say, 400 fry hatched I may have 10 belly sliders at most at hatching. I also may have a few which turn belly slider after 1 month of age, but this is uncommon and reason unknown! There is something different or missing that is causing all of your belly sliders at hatching. I have never had a big problem with wetting too soon and hatching large percentages of belly sliders. If the peat is wet too soon the fry do not hatch, if it is wet too late this may be hatching belly sliders?? WE will need to cover all the conditions that the eggs are exposed to during incubation. One thing I did pick up on a while back, is it seems the eggs you had to work with did not get a lot of rest, they were exposed to a lot of light out of the peat, I rarely ever look at the eggs in my peat except at the due to hatch time to see the percentage of clear vs eyed eggs. Eggs are also stored very dark in a closed cabinet.

Okay all for tonite, I must sleep now !!

[RonWill]

I find your combined results rather interesting as well as confusing!!

Why would it be so, David? Was there something you see that's out of the norm?

My initial wetting was at 3 months when I had detected lotsa eyed-up eggs. Dunking that was an 'eye-popping' experience. Subsequent wetting yielded nothing.

For egg incubation, these are kept in the utility closet outside my home, which may be slighter lower than ambient temp range of 28-31ºC (82~87ºF). I may have peeked into the 1st bag more often than I should have but the 2nd was left 'neglected' until it was time to dunk.

I had the impression that incubation period would be shorter because of our climate, as was the case with nothos and simps, but I suppose there are exceptions.

What I find interesting from your observations is that between the 1st and 2nd wetting, don't eggs don't 'go bad'? For the annuals that I used to maintain, comes time to rebag the peat after wetting, I'll find fungicized eggs. Clean aged water is used for the wetting and am unclear why it happens, as infertile eggs would probably have disintegrated before the first wet.

There is something different or missing that is causing all of your belly sliders at hatching. I have never had a big problem with wetting too soon and hatching large percentages of belly sliders. If the peat is wet too soon the fry do not hatch, if it is wet too late this may be hatching belly sliders??

Your incidence of belly sliding fry is lower, but it happens. When wetting these eggs;
Do you aerate the hatching tray?
What's the height of incubating water?
Do you concoct a hatching brew?

FWIW, I'd like to give it another go and if you have a bag somewhere, please send it with Bill's 'bus'. Thanks.

[Debbbear]

Ron,
I may be way off on this, but I wonder if your belly sliders are because they were shipped to you. Every time that I hatch fry from annuals that have come from any distance. I have problems with belly sliders. The first few times after only getting maybe a pair or just one fry,I almost gave up thinking that I was a failure. Then a pair of N kilomberoensis that I have starting laying eggs,and, too, my surprize I did not have any belly sliders. The same thing happened to the N. eggersi and the N. foerschi. Now I am anxious to see if I have any problems with the Simp. magnificus when I hatch the eggs that I have from the pairs in my tanks.
If you can get those belly sliders to lay for you, you may just be good to go!

[RonWill]

Every time that I hatch fry from annuals that have come from any distance. I have problems with belly sliders.

Sorry I missed the response but why would you suspect that and by 'any distance', would that include a few hours' drive?

BTW Deb, I'm afraid I can't spawn the surviving trio of belly sliders... 3-male syndrome.

[Debbbear]

Ron wrote

by 'any distance', would that include a few hours' drive?

Most of my eggs I have gotten from Africa, Brazil and Hungary. I wonder if air pressure or if change of water type can cause a problem? I don't know of any thing that I have done different with shipped eggs or my own eggs.Maybe I just got lucky for a few hatchings..
Sorry to hear that you got all males!! That's a bummer,and bellysliders at that...double bummer