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Sounds sensible, since even human are supposedly affected by pH in the womb during conception.Originally Posted by killifishdavid
I do not have enough experiance with this species to say yet what will mostly or partly effect the sex ratio of the offspring. I found 4 other people who have worked with this particular fish, all with the lack of female offspring.
So far in my recent work with the cameronense group of killifish I find that 7.1 to 6.8 PH and temps of 73 to 75 degrees produce 90 to 100% males. In the following test batch a temp of 68 to 71 and PH of 6.0 to 6.5
produced 60 to 75% males. These are for species coming from Gabon and Cameroon.
When I commercially bred and raised Apistogramma and Pelvacachromis
(4 to 5 years ago) I found that it was not so much temperature that effected sex ratios, but PH was the key factor!! By performing regular water changes and allowing tank PH to remain higher, I would get many more males in compairison to females.
I have been compiling information and continue to perform controlled studies on many of the killifish species I am currently working with (I have a few species) in preparation for publishing. The publications should start becoming available this summer! However it will be an on going project which may not ever come to an end until I leave this body!!
On the cooler temps needed for many of the killifish you guys in SG wish to keep and maintain for many years, a chiller may be cost prohibitive, however have you considered allternatives? A apartment type or household refrigerator can be modified to cool a large bank of tanks. One method I know of that works well, is to coil aluminum tubing inside of the refer unit and connected to a small circulation pump. Remember that insulating all components exposed to the warmer air temps for best results.
Good Evening !!
Sounds sensible, since even human are supposedly affected by pH in the womb during conception.
why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica
David,
Granted that we can alter parameters for a more balanced sex ratio and that the determination of sex is upon hatching, then how long after the fry are free-swimming is their sex 'confirmed'?... or is it further subjected to change, according to their grow-out environment?
I read about experiments where only 2 eggs are allowed to hatch in each container and the conclusion to that was a pair. Let's say, if their sex is 'fixed' after a week, we can then 'regroup' the batch of fry to continue with their grow-out. Tinkering with the pH sounds a whole lot easier!
Drop us an update when the book is ready for prime time.The publications should start becoming available this summer!
One other possibility may be a 'evaporative cooler' discussed earlier or perhaps a Henri DeBruyn filter, further assisted with fan cooling, to drop the temp.On the cooler temps needed for many of the killifish you guys in SG wish to keep and maintain for many years, a chiller may be cost prohibitive, however have you considered allternatives?
I was relocating some tanks around to a shaded windy spot and the water registered 25ºC... and that's good! considering no fan was used. Looks like diapteron species is a possibility! :wink:
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
I tried the 2 fry method on a number of genera and a lot of species. I found that the sex ratio troubled fish, it did not help. I still ended up with all males or all females!! The species that the 2 fry rearing method did work on for me was the species that I did not have a sex ratio problem with!! So I do not buy this method at all. I do know that temp and ph both may have an effect on the sex ratio outcome, I have proven this and can reproduce it. If I need more females or more males of selected species/genera I am able to manipulate the water conditions to produce the sex I prefer. I do not claim to know all the secrets, but I have nailed down some of the sex ratio manipulation. Betta breeders have been doing this for many years on your side of the world, to produce males or females as their market demands. As far as the time involved before the sex is set is only a guess at this point. My guess is that it may be in the 4-6 week time frame but could be longer or shorter for faster or shorter growing species.
My publications I am working on I will say are in the form of a series of printed booklets that will sell for approx. $5. usd each. They will be the size of the AKA JAKA booklets. I will let you guyz all know as we get close
to print time so you may place reserve orders if you wish!! ;-)
David sent an email to both Ronnie and myself and is sending 30 eggs of
ZII today to arrive (tentatively) in SG this Friday. Other eggs, details, I'll
let Ronnie inform.
Bill Ruyle
farang9
Bill, parcel arrived Friday morning, March 19th, and I've checked the contents;
[1] One petri-dish with peat, labelled ZII 'Faimah' SL89 30eggs Mar 05.
[2] One petri-dish with peat, labelled BIT 'Ekondo Titi' Coll: Mar 16.
[3] One breather bag of eyed-up BIT Ijebu Ode 2doz.
[4] One bag of Paramecium culture.
[5] One petri dish from Patrick Coleman.
I had originally intended to split incubation 2 ways; ie. one bag with Kwek Leong but it looks like 2 auctions' worth of eggs are in one dish. Under the stereo-scope (or dissecting scope), eggs are eyed-up and ready to burst! Have to wet tonight!
The Ekondo and Ijebu are my tag-alongs. I'm absolutely convinced by breather bags... and utterly amazed with at least 6 Ijebu frys swimming around! (I'm thinking live fishes for my next shopping spree!)
In anticipation of the Paramecium starter, I've prepared 'soups' from various ingredients, to see which works best/fastest ;
Boiled lettuce/cabbage, Wheat grain/yeast, Evaporated powdered milk, Liquidfry #1, Pellet dog food/lettuce, Banana skin and pending availability; cornhusks and hay (sounds like a trip to the turf club??)
I've taken a few pics, in between jobs at work, of the package and eggs. Will do up a simple webbie, just so that Bill knows what's happening to his precious cargo (so stay tuned to this channel).
The good folks here should know the pressure I'm feeling... Bill's dish of 30 eggs alone is worth slightly more than US$100, excluding shipping (or SG$6 per egg! ouch!). Thus, any distribution of his frys will have to be accounted for... lest people ask if I have any to 'spare'.
Kwek Leong, I'll let you know when the fry are stable for transport. Please clear up a container/tank for the newcomers.
Fedex shipping of US$45 will be split amongst those involved locally (this excludes Bill), which works out to SG$11.oo per person... hmm, I like rounding up numbers too! :wink:
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
And he gave them to you for free :wink:. It just goes to show what a generous man Bill is. But you're a generous man too, Ronnie and as you once said, it's all reciprocal.
I've always have tanks on standby for new fish :wink: Anytime the fry is ready to be transported, just give me a call. By the way, please include me as one of those involved in sharing the shipping costs. I think it's only fair I pay my share.Kwek Leong, Please clear up a container/tank for the newcomers.
Fedex shipping of US$45 will be split amongst those involved locally
Loh K L
I can agree that Bill generosity is beyond me, but I'd prefer to think that the ZII is for all of us to be temporary babysitters, or guardians, if you will.
In one of the threads (I've forgotten which one), we know that Bill will be heading down to Thailand and he'd wish for us to be able to send the some future generation of ZII eggs or offsprings to him, hence the issue of accountability.
Personally, I look at it as a 'maintenance program' to keep the ZII going. Imagine what it would be like, with nothing to offer back (as in zero survivor), when the time comes.
FWIW, I'm thankful for the opportunity he's given us to work with such a beautiful killie.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Ronnie, KL, and the gang,
While I wish for all success with these eggs, it won't be the end of the world
if you get ziilch with the ZII :wink: We can try again, and there are some
other species I would like to send over, hopefully in April sometime. And
please, I can be a silent partner in this, no need for fanfare
Take care and best wishes,
Bill Ruyle
farang9
That may be true, but Kwek Leong and I believe that without obligation and commitment, nothing can get off the ground.
There's something optimistic that I'd like to share with you and something I'm very convinced about. When I finally poured out the content from the breather bag (containing 2 doz Ijebu Ode eggs), I did a head count of 24 frys! No casualty as yet. This is the most impressive survival rate I've experienced!... and there are some other species I would like to send over, hopefully in April sometime.
Nothing has come ever close to this and David, if you're listening... eyed-up egg + breather bag + Fedex = best survival = one very happy repeat customer!... think about it.
Only people in shame hang their heads low and in silence. You have no need for that :wink:I can be a silent partner in this, no need for fanfare
(BTW David, here's a quick update from my previous order;
AUS= 6 fry, SPL Moliwe=2, OGO=0 and the COE eggs have all turned white!What's the incubation time for the SPL & OGO?)
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Bill, I've been hitting the sack past 5am for the last week or two, and I'm poofed!... but a brief update...
040323 = 13 fry
040324 + 3 fry
Total fry count to date @ 16 fry, out of the said 30 eggs... we'll see if further hatchlings appear. Roger and out.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Fantastic! Ron, get some rest!
Bill
farang9
Ronnie,
If I ever move to your neighbour, I'll be glad to help but you need accept me as a student first (for free). :wink:
Student?? You're just flattering me KC but help is always appreciated. All the units at my level are taken up, so you're a little late for that.
Would have loved having another killie-keeper at my floor (or my apartment block), but I'm sure the Town Council will have something to say about the 'mess' :wink:
===========================================
Bill & others,
For those who're eyeing for an update, here's a quickie summary;
Parcel arrived March 19th.
[1] One petri-dish with peat, labelled ZII 'Faimah' SL89 30eggs Mar 05.
040323 = 13 fry
040324 + 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
Total head count to date @ 18 fry out of 30 eggs.
===========================================
and for the 'tag-ons';
[2] One petri-dish with peat, labelled BIT 'Ekondo Titi' Coll: Mar 16.
040323 = 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
Total head count to date @ 5 fry out of ? eggs.
[3] One breather bag of eyed-up Ap. BIT Ijebu Ode 2doz.
Just checked. No casualties as yet.
[4] One bag of Paramecium culture.
Resubbed to 8 cultures of various media & doing just fine.
[5] One petri dish from Patrick Coleman.
Of the visible 34 eggs (as counted from pic). Can't see? Click here.
040323 = 36 fry
040325 + 1 fry
Total head count to date @ 37 fry (N'sukka?).
===========================================
David, another update from my previous order (received around March 8th) and wetted 040310;
Aphy. australe 'Cape Esterias' EBT 96-27 coll: Feb 26th
040310 = 8
040320 + 1
040322 + 2
040323 + 1
Total head count to date @ 12 fry out of 24 eggs.
Chromaphy. splendopleure Moliwe coll: Feb 25th
040320 =2 fry
Total head count to date @ 2 fry out of ? eggs.
Aphy. ogoense pyrophore GHP 80-23 coll: Feb 26th
Zero fry to date
Aphy. coeleste GBG 93-2 coll: Feb 28th
Zero fry to date
Further updates when I'm more sober :wink:
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
A mini update before I turn in...
[1] One petri-dish with peat, labelled ZII 'Faimah' SL89 30eggs Mar 05.
040323 = 13 fry
040324 + 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
040326 + 3 fry
Total head count to date @ 21 fry out of 30 eggs.
===========================================
[2] One petri-dish with peat, labelled BIT 'Ekondo Titi' Coll: Mar 16.
040323 = 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
040326 + 2 fry
Total head count to date @ 7 fry out of ? eggs.
all others unchanged.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Thanks Ronnie for baby-sitting the N’sukka for me. I will get it back from you once I submit my dissertation end of next week.[5] One petri dish from Patrick Coleman.
Of the visible 34 eggs (as counted from pic). Can't see? Click here.
040323 = 36 fry
040325 + 1 fry
Total head count to date @ 37 fry (N'sukka?).
David here is the updates on the eggs (arrive 2 weeks before Bill’s eggs)
AUS = 5 fry
MIR TRU tinto = 0 fry
MIR MOE nguti = 0 fry
EXO ngoudoufola = 0 fry
regards
Ron, that is much better than I had hoped, good job!
Bill
farang9
Bill,
Kwek Leong was at my place on Saturday Mar 27th, and collected a share of 10 ZII frys. There was supposed to be 11 in the other tray but only 10 was in sight.
Anyway, the update refers to hatch rate only;
[1] One petri-dish with peat, labelled ZII 'Faimah' SL89 30eggs Mar 05.
040323 = 13 fry
040324 + 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
040326 + 3 fry
040327 + 1 fry
040329 + 2 fry
Total head count to date @ 24 fry out of 30 eggs... and I couldn't ask for more.
and for the 'tag-ons';
[2] One petri-dish with peat, labelled BIT 'Ekondo Titi' Coll: Mar 16.
040323 = 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
030426 + 3 fry
040327 + 2 fry
Total head count to date @ 10 fry out of ? eggs.
All others remain unchanged.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Bill, here's one more for the road :wink:
[1] One petri-dish with peat, labelled ZII 'Faimah' SL89 30eggs Mar 05.
040323 = 13 fry
040324 + 3 fry
040325 + 2 fry
040326 + 3 fry
040327 + 1 fry
040329 + 2 fry
040330 + 1 fry
Total head count to date @ 25 fry out of 30 eggs... I'm really pleased!!
All others remain unchanged.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Me too!
Bill
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