new and interesting ways to keep those riccia down

[loupgarou]

hmm: the high maintenance of riccia = yellowing bottom and stupid floating leaves that clog your surface skimmer..

heh.

[toledosun]

I've actually exchanged a few emails with Birgit on the riccia weights. From what I understand, the main advantage is that the weight of the steel rods used keeps the riccia from floating up for a longer period. Here's her explanation on her weights.

I've actually thought of trying the same thing here but I've read posts saying that the "stainless steel" meshes may not be of that good quality and may cause metal poisoning so I've stayed away from the idea.

Here's her explanation:

"The weights as I made them hold the plant down for about 3 - 4 weeks at least without trimming. If you trimm it, you would probably have about 8 - 12 weeks. It depends on your tank though. I have some in the smaller tank that need about 6 weeks until they start to float, because growth isn´t that fast in all the plants there. It also depends on the whole mass of the weights. One single weight floats much faster than many weights with riccia placed beside each other. Since the plants grow into each other they hold one another down. A huge lawn like you see them in my pictures is much easier to achieve than just a small spot.

OK, now the main advantage of the steel mesh: it is quite thick. It needs a longer time until the plant under the mesh will rot, than under nylon line or hair net, or the mesh you suggested (IMO - although I didn´t try it - it seems to be really dark under that needlemesh, if we are talking about the same thing - that would lead to faster rotting). Sometimes I lift the mesh and everything beyond is very green, no sign of rotting. Once the whole plants lift off, it is just because there is not enough weight to hold it down. The reason is not the rotting of the plant. If you use 4mm steel, you will probably be able to hold it down for 2 months without pruning.

And the real main advantage is the speed of work. Just recently I decided to get rid of my micranthemum micranthemoides foreground, since it was too much work. Guess what, I replaced it with riccia. And it took me about 1/10th of the time than it took me to plant all that micranthemum in the foreground. And maintenance is also less. Planted that way, riccia is the easiest foreground plant, and grows in fastest."

[Allen_1971]

toledosun,

thanks for the reply... it more or less confirms my ideas... Birgit does raise a good point about riccia... it can potentially be the easiest carpet plant to get.... heheh though its probably one of the most messy as well...

[toledosun]

I'm no expert on riccia (my past few attempts at a riccia lawn were complete disasters). However,I suspect there may be another reason why Birgit's riccia doesn't seem to rot as fast.

When we tie the riccia, the part covered by the string/thread whatever and the object it's tied to will be totally deprived of sunlight. Since riccia needs lots of light, won't that cause that part of the riccia to die faster?

Using Birgit's method, if you do not press the mesh into the gravel, chances are the riccia under the mesh can still move around to a certain extent, be it because of current or disturbance from the fishes. That may explain why the riccia at the bottom doesn't die that fast.

Just a thought.

[vinz]

Hmmm, consider this.

These weights do not crush the riccia down. The riccia probably holds up the weights somewhat. This allows for some space at the bottom thru which water can flow through and more light through.

When we tie with netting, I think we tend to pull to tight to make it secure, thus squashing the riccia together. This restricts water flow and limits the light.

Part of the reason for faster rotting in the second case could be due to lack of nutrients due to bad water flow.

[Allen_1971]

hmmm... perhaps... but what if you simply used the mesh to weigh the riccia down without tying. i.e. do a minor modification to what birgit suggests: grow the riccia on the surface, then just trap some under the mesh (instead of wire) and place it to the bottom.

[vinz]

heard from a friend and also mentioned in the forum sometime back: Someone fashioned open boxes out of the mesh and basically traps riccia under them for quick replanting. Once the Riccia gets too thick or starts floating, remove the meshes, stuff healthy riccia under them and repeat the cycle.

[M0rph3us]

im thinking of trying it.. but is the wire thingy easily available from local hardwareshop?

[toledosun]

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On 1/16/2003 4:59:10 PM

heard from a friend and also mentioned in the forum sometime back: Someone fashioned open boxes out of the mesh and basically traps riccia under them for quick replanting. Once the Riccia gets too thick or starts floating, remove the meshes, stuff healthy riccia under them and repeat the cycle.
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Tell you guys what I did last night. Went to buy loads of riccia from System & Control Engineering (cost $8/steel mesh but well worth it because I took the 4 bushiest of the lot, riccia in each mesh about 5-8 cm tall).

Went to NTUC and bought those plastic anti-slip mats (the type with lots of holes for laying on toilets etc to prevent slipping.

Went home, tore the riccia off the mesh and floated them on the water. Cut the plastic meshes to smaller pieces and just dropped them over the riccia. Whole exercise (including cutting plastic mesh) took about 20 mins for a 3 ft tank.

Only problem with the plastic floor mat is that they are not that heavy so in areas where lots of ricca were trapped, it tilted up. Anyway, will monitor and see if this method works.

One thing for sure, it was very easy to do.

[Irn-Bru]

went down to the hardware shop at serangoon north ave 2 yesterday... the uncle there had a sample steel mesh on display that was cut to 2.5x4 inches, distance between steel rods is about 1cm... diameter of steel rods is about 2mm only...

overall it seems abit light but i figure if its 3mm or 4mm type of steel, it would be the perfect solution to winding steel rods...

the 2mm type could be too light for holding down the normal riccia... maybe it can work for the mini riccia though...

btw, the uncle is also unwilling to cut to that size and sell in small quantities...

i have no space to try it out in my tanks now... maybe somebody else can give it a try... he will be bringing in the 3mm type mesh soon...

[toledosun]

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On 1/17/2003 11:59:34 AM

went down to the hardware shop at serangoon north ave 2 yesterday... the uncle there had a sample steel mesh on display that was cut to 2.5x4 inches, distance between steel rods is about 1cm... diameter of steel rods is about 2mm only...

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hmmm, if it's only 2.5 x 4 inches, do we still need to cut it? Sounds like an ideal size for my fish tank if the plastic doesn't work out!

Just two questions:

1) what's the risk of using these so called steel rods? My greatest phobia is that they will rust and cause even more problems (that's why I went for plastic, btw).

2) how much is each steel mesh, assuming they're safe to use?

Thanks.

[Irn-Bru]

only the sample is that small... at one look, it seems perfect for riccia to me as well... but the raw mesh comes rolled up with a width of 1.5metres...

according to the shopowner, its steel and will not rust but i'm not very convinced myself... its definitely not that type of shiny stainless steel material if you ask me...

no cost quoted for the sample mesh... coz he's not selling it that size...

[illumbomb]

so how thick can the riccia be before the bottom start to rot?

[Birgit]

Hey guys, very funny. I just fell over that topic, looking if there was any rumor here about Aquabotanic contest.

If it is stainless steel, it won´t rust! I have it in my tanks for about 1/2 year, and it didn´t. But be careful. Someone sold me a small piece of rod, and said it was stainless. Two days later it was oxydizing.

2mm is for sure not heavy enough. I once made my maths about this, and I think it was about half the weight of 3mm.

About the poisonous thing: I don´t think stainless steel is poisonous. Even Amano uses it in his new product line.

And about the thickness: if you cover more than just a spot, it will weight about 4 - 5cm. If you plant some other plants inbetween, those will hold the whole thing down longer.

Any more questions?

[geoffrey]

Hi Guys,

I tried Birgit's method. Bought a 1m long stainless steel rod with a diameter of 1.5mm ready-cut for $1.50 from a hardware shop in Marsiling. It does hold the Riccia down neatly. Now waiting for the Riccia to grow brushier.

One catch: bending the rod to the shape you want is not easy!!

[vinz]

Birgit, the "stainlessness" and toxicity of stainless steel depends on the grade of the stainless steel. Ranging from those used in surgery equipment down to who knows what. I think someone posted more info on that in another thread.

[Allen_1971]

The thread vinz was talking about can be found here

[kc]

Geoffrey,
Which shop did you get the stainless steel from?

Sad to say, woodland don't have good LFS for planted tank.

[geoffrey]

Not LFS lah, hardware shop lah. That particular shop I bought from is beside the book shop at block 18.