Hi, folks,
Someone who lives in Malta, Europe asked me to send some Elatine triandra to him. As we know, this plant is very delicate and will definitely not survive the journey. But my friend in Malta believes there's a way to send the plant successfully which is to enclose it with agar.
I'm not sure what agar he was referring to but he mentioned nutrient agar and the best agar, he said, would be Orchid seed agar used for germinating Orchid seeds. I asked the wife and the only agar she knows is the agar agar she uses for making "agar agar", the kueh we eat for dessert.
Anyway, my friend sent a set of instructions and I tried to follow them best as I could. This is what I did:
My wife made a few calls to fellow "aunties" and they all agreed that "Instant Jelly Powder" would work better than "Agar Powder" so we went and bought a bottle of it from a confectionary shop. We got some sugar and water ready. Here's a pic:
We mixed 12 ounces of water, 4 spoons of sugar and 2 spoons of Instant Jelly powder and put the solution to boil over a stove.
I pulled some Elatine triandra from my tank and washed it under a tap.
I then poured hot water over an empty CD casing to sterilise it and after it has been cooled, I spread the Elatine over it.
When the Jelly solution has been boiled, we cool it by immersing the pot into a bucket of cool water. We stirred the solution constantly to keep it from solidifying.
When the solution is sufficiently cooled, we pour it over the Elatine.
Here's how it looks after we closed the CD casing.
I then insert the casing into a plastic bag and sealed it.
The whole thing went into a padded envelope.
To ensure the plant spends as little time as possible in the envelope, I had to send it on a Monday morning. I had to work so I left instructions with the maid. She was to ask the people in the post office to weigh the envelope and find out the postage needed. She was to stick on the stamps and drop the envelope into the letter box. When I came home from work, however, the envelope was on the dining room table. My maid explained that the guys in the post office said there's no country on Planet Earth called Malta. It doesn't exist!!
Good grief, I thought. One day wasted for nothing. I mulled over the whole thing and decided not to send the plant after all. I decided to keep the envelope in my drawer and check on it one week later to see if the Instant Jelly method works.
I opened the envelope on Saturday afternoon (6 days later) and this is what I saw.
The jelly has turned into liquid and was leaking all over inside the plastic bag. The plants have turned into mush and there's only a little root structure left.
Shucks
If you have any good suggestions, I would be glad to hear them. If you know where I can get nutrient agar, please let me know. If you have healthy Elatine triandra to spare, I will be grateful if you can pass me some as those in my tank aren't growing well. If you are willing to send the plants on my behalf using the method described above, I would be even more grateful. Frankly, I'm stressed out about the whole thing. My friend in Malta wants the plant very badly but I can't find the time to do it properly. If only he had wanted Moss instead
Loh K L
Kwek leong,
I am not sure if Elatine triandra can survive the trip even if you have found the correct jelly. Anyway, you might want to test it out using the colourful jelly which people put into glass jar for planting Dracaena sp and Money Plant. The jelly comes in powder form and you just need to add water (room temp) to it. I believe you can get them from NTUC or plant nurseries.
Gan
KL, I was at Far East Florist, Thomson Road last week and saw orchid plantlets which were sealed inside small plastic containers with the so called "nutrient agar". Maybe you can check with the staff about this agar.
Jason Wong
Er... Mr Loh, I am curious to know why sugar is added to the agar. Is it for some special reason?
I will be sending some Elatine triandra to Greece for my friend once I get some on hand. I had sent some Tonina to him and when he received it after one week, the plant was still fresh and healthy. I followed the instruction by Timebomb on how to sent moss but I included a piece of damp cloth inside the plastic bag and two strips of sponge on the two side to prevent the plant from been crashed. For Elatine triandra, I planned to do the following:
1) Get a thin piece of sponge, drip into water and squeeze out as many water as possible.
2) Wrap the sponge with a plastic bag. Cut some lines on the sponge with a cutter and insert the root of the Elatine into the line.
3) Put the sponge with Elatine into a plastic bag and seal up.
4) Put it into a padded bag and post it out.
I do not know if the above method works but I will try it out later. Will update on the outcome.
Regards,
Ong Poh San
Hi Mr Loh,
I think what the guy is actually referring to is MS nutrient agar. It is a form of agar used for tissue culture and contains all the nutrients, essential minerals and plant hormones for proper growth. However those agar are costly and would require sterile conditions for you to prepare them.
I have tried sending some Utricularia aurea to the states before. They arrived healthy and good. What I did was to packed the plants in a film cansiter (Fuji brand---cause their's is white and is translucent) and sealed it tightly with scotch tape. I then packed it into a white envelope and tape the side with scotch tape to prevent the envelope from collapsing incase of water leakage.
Basically.. that's all..!
regards
Jonathan Poh
Hi
This Elatine triandra is plant which grows in wild in Poland. It is hard to find but it is possible. Soon i will "go to the wild"and try to find it. I am wondering if i can find some of it near by, where i live?? I have some ideas how to send it too
Radek Wątorski
When things become tough........remeber it can always get tougher
Loh,
I doubt it will works even if you use tissue culture agar as tissue culture media are prone to contaminant. You need to work in a clean room or use a glove box or laminar with hepa filter, futher more you will need to sterilize you plant with 70% ethanol then with 10~20% bleach solution then run it with sterilize water. You will also need to add Plant Preservative Media (PPM) into the media to prevent the contaminant from catching up.
The procedure will be the same as tissue culture, has to be really really really clean!
Based on my experience, Elatine can only be sent via express. (less than 5 days still ok)
Jonathan, tissue culture hobbyists usually do not use Murashige and Skoog (MS) nutrient agar, the agar use for cooking jelly will do. That what I use. :wink:
Regards,
Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
Last night, after I finished writing the post, my wife said maybe we should try sending the Elatine again using agar powder. So she boiled some agar with sugar and after its cooled and we poured it on the Elatine, the resulting mass looks firmer than the jelly we used the last time. This morning, it was still looking good so I asked my maid to send the envelope. I was too tired and sleepy to take a picture.
Malta, by the way, is a country in Europe close to Italy. I thought I was the only one whose geography sucks but it seems like the people in our post offices are quite blur also.
I tried sending the envelope through express mail last week but my maid said the guys in the post office disallow that. I don't know the reasons why but in any case, express mail is faster than normal mail by only one day.
Sia Meng, the guy who wanted the Elatine mentioned something about having to keep everything very sterile before the method can work. He recommended that I disinfect everything with boiling water and washing my hands with Dettol. But I'm afraid I was a bit sloppy and wash my hands with tap water only. After all, I thought, the plant itself can't be sterilised so what's the point of keeping my hands so clean.
Poh San, if your sponge method works, please let us know about it.
Radek, is the Elatine really native to Poland? I'm surprised. For a change, maybe you guys in Europe should send us some plants instead :wink:.
Jonathan, I think your film cannister method won't work with the Elatine as the plant cannot withstand being without light and air for anything more than a few days. That's what the guy in Malta said anyway.
Loh K L
LohOriginally Posted by timebomb
I am waiting for more info from one of polish prof which is biobotanic. He wrote to me that he will try to know something about this plant in Poland(he wrtote that this plant grows in few places in Poland but it can be hard to find
Radek Wątorski
When things become tough........remeber it can always get tougher
I’m very sorry to hear that the method did not work. I’ve just seen your last post. I hope the package does make it.
Some things I would like to point out;
1) Someone mentioned MS nutrient medium. Its true that is what I think would have been the best medium. There is no need for absolute sterile conditions in this case, we are not doing tissue culture.
2) The sugar is a nutrient source in the absence of light. I kept another species of Elatine alive in this nutrient medium without light for 28 days, while without sugar it did not last 7 days.
3) Elatine triandra is found in central Europe, Poland too. But it is more than probable that it is not the same variety, and will not do as well in aquaria as the Asian form being grown in Singapore (see Rataj 1977). I would still be very interested if anyone does manage to find any Elatine species or varieties in their localities.
4) The jelly melting is because jelly is made up of gelatin not agarose. Gelatin is denatured by a number of bacteria and liquefies especially in warm temperatures. Agar is much more stable. Sorry KL but your wife’s aunts got it slightly wrong.
5) There were two problems with the method you listed here: There was too much sugar. I said 4 teaspoons of sugar in 500ml. You put in 4 tablespoons in 12 ounces water (ie 340 mls)! This would possibly upset the osmotic balance and make the nutrients unavailable to the plant.
6) The water should have been aquarium water, which has the right inorganic nutrient solutions, pH etc
7) Even so the plants probably died because of high temperatures, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
Kwek Leong, Please give my sincere gratitude to your wife for all the trouble I’ve caused in your kitchen. You guys are wonderful.
Best regards
Stephan
On the mega-continent of Malta – if you can find it.
Stephan,
If the Elatine does not survive the journey, let me know and I will try again with MS nutrient agar. I'll make sure I stick to your recipe this time and don't put in too much sugar. I didn't realise it was important to use the tank water but after your explanation, I will keep this in mind too.
If in the unlikely chance the Elatine survives the journey, I would appreciate it very much if you take a picture and send it to me.
Jonathan, where can I buy MS nutrient agar?
Loh K L
Please KL don't go into the trouble and expense of buying MS medium. The recipee I sent should be enough.
1)Agar is agar - for food or for media (1.5 to 2% in the prepared media ie 3 to 4 level teaspoons in 500 mls water)
2)Sugar - is the normal organic food source (3% in the prepared media ie 4 level teaspoons, roughly 15g sugar in 500mls water)
3)Inorganic salts from your aquarium are probably better balanced than the MS formulation if the Elatine is growing well.
4)Water - Aquarium water after routine fertilisation. Start off with a little more than 500 ml, because some evaporates during boiling. say 525 - 550ml.
5) There is no absolute need for bacterial/fungal inhibitors which are necessary for tissue culture - but starting off with disinfected surfaces, hands etc helps reduce the initial contamination.
6) An important point is not to fill the media to the brim of the CD case. Oxygen is still needed for respiration, and boiling removes most of it from the water.
A good alternative might be the Orchid seed agar Jason Wong saw at the florist.
But lets see what happens when I receive the package and I'll insert an image here.
The main reason I need some Elatine triandra is for a botanical comparison study which I 'm working on. Otherwise I would have not bothered anybody with all this trouble.
Thanks again
regards to all
Stephan from Malta.
Stephan,
If it's for science, it isn't any trouble. Please let me know if the Elatine I sent don't survive the journey and I will try again. My Elatine isn't growing well but those in Freddy's tank are growing superbly. I'm sure he wouldn't mind giving me some to send to you.
Honestly though, the main reason I'm willing to go through a lot of trouble sending the Elatine to you is that if it works, it would also mean I can send the Downoi to some of my close friends in other countries.
Loh K L
As soon as you get a good recipe, you should patent it =).
Sending Downoi abroad sounds wonderful. It stuns me to look at Aquabid and see the plant for around $25US and then another $25(or 35) to send it quickly abroad. I do not know if I could ever spend that much on one plant!
Back to topic:
Would you have to change the agars for different plants?
-Mark Mendoza
I don't think so, Mark. If the agar works for the Elatine, it should work for the Downoi too. If you ask me, I think the latter looks by far, a much tougher traveller than the former. But the Downoi wouldn't fit into a CD case so it has to go into a bigger box. Keep your fingers crossed
Loh K L
That's it! I can't take it anymore! Kwek Leong, can I have a 'tiny' stalk of Downoi... after I revamp my 'algae tank'? You don't have to pack it in agar tho :wink:
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Et tu, Ronnie? Then fall timebomb
Loh K L
I am comparing the flower and seed of Elatine gussonei with that of Elatine macropoda. With regard to Elatine triandra I would like to know what are the differences between Elatine triandra found in Europe, which is not regarded as a good aquarium plant and that being grown in Singapore. My reason for wanting some of the plant is mainly to get it to flower – the flower and seed will show the species and variety. I know that in Japan there is a particular form of Elatine triandra which is a weed of rice fields known as Elatine triandra var pedicellata (with flowers on stalks). My question is could this be the same variety as grown in Singapore?
Since most of the members in this forum are from Singapore I thought I might also ask a couple of questions which maybe some of you might know.
1)Can anybody tell me why is it called the Ah Pek's Plant (APP) ? Who's Ah Pek?
2)Who originally identified it to the exact identification of Elatine triandra?
Thanks and Best regards to all.
Stephan
from Malta[/quote]
'Ah Pek' refers to the uncle at CAPRICORN Aquarium aka 'Ah Pek'.
This is one of the plant farms favored by local aquarists. I don't know how the name came about.
Gan
Finally the package has arrived. It left Monday and arrived Thursday ie 11 days. Unfortunately the leaves were transparent greenish brown. The roots look ok and so does the stem except that its not green. I do not think it will be able to recuperate.
But even so, I have received much of what I wished to see, because the plants had something growing at their leaf axils – flower buds! That was exciting - Three sepals indicating that the plant IS Elatine triandra. I wish they could flower but they’re probably dead now.
So thanks Kwek Leong. Have a look at your plants you should be able to see the flower buds at the leaf axils (small spheres).
If you would like try to get them to flower, grow them at the surface eg on a Riccia raft or in a terrarium with lots of light. If they do flower post me a photo. Then stroke the flowers with a small paint brush to transfer pollen. The flowers should become fruit, full of seeds. Maybe transporting the seeds would be a surer way of transporting Elatine. But if you are still willing to try out the agar method again please use much less sugar.
best regards
Stephan
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