Sending Elatine triandra (how to?)

[timebomb]

But even so, I have received much of what I wished to see, because the plants had something growing at their leaf axils – flower buds!

Stephan, I'm sorry the plant didn't survive the journey but I'm glad the flower buds were there. I'll see what I can do to grow them emersed. In the meantime, I will try and send some again to you with less sugar.

By the way, about the name APP - it was a name popularised in some other message boards based in Singapore. I have to say I think it's downright silly to give such a common name to a plant when there's already a scientific name. To call it after the person who sells them is even sillier.

Here are the 2 pictures of the flower buds and flower you sent me:





Loh K L

[felixe]

Hi, Elatine maniacs of the world !

Can you ID this plant ? I took this picture last summer.
http://www.mulsamo.net/killi/bbs/data/felixe/030615.jpg
I called them "Korean native Elatine-like" plant.

I can't hardly remember whether they have 3 petals or not,
but if you need to, I wish to visit that place again this summer.

We Korean have native Elatine triandra ( Schkuhr var. pedicellata Krylov; 1901? ) too,
but didn't have a chance to adapt them to the aquarium till now...
(I think that the Elatines we've been using are from south-east asia.)

[imported_stephan]

Hi Felixe,

Its leaves look very much like an Elatine's. If that is an Elatine, it is probably Elatine triandra. Its flowers will identify it as an Elatine. Elatine triandra is a weed in rice fields both in central Europe and in Japan, so its probably the same in Korea.

var. pedicellata means that its flowers grow on stalks, not like in the picture shown the previous post. The flowers there are sessile.

If you do manage to get a sample please try to get it to flower. Or you might notice the flowers in the wild . If so please take a photo and send it to me. You might also see the fruit on the plants in the wild. They should look like small round green/brown balls (on stalks if the variety is pedicellata). If you like you can dry them and end up with miniature comma shaped seeds, which you can later use, sell or swap :wink: .

What was the temperature like when you took those photos?

Thanks
Stephan
Malta

[felixe]

The place I found the plant was a drainage located in the top-middle of a mountain.
Even though in summer, the water which flowed that drainage was cold because of the valley-water.
So the temperature, I guess, it was less than 20~25 Celsius or so in the daytime.
(the altitude was at least 7~800m or more...)

Thank you for your comment, Stephan.
Let's see what can I do for you on this summer.

[imported_stephan]

Hi Felixe,

The temperature range you mention is compatible with the identity of Elatine triandra. I was thinking of higher summer temperatures in Korea but forgot about the Altitude .

Here in summer everywhere is hot.

regards to all
Stephan

[Slaigar]

Mr. Loh,
What did you label the package so they pass by customs? I am planning to ship some plants to Singapore but still trying to figure out what label will assure that the package will not get confiscated!
"Aquarium Plants- Scientific Research" ?

[timebomb]

still trying to figure out what label will assure that the package will not get confiscated!
"Aquarium Plants- Scientific Research" ?

Mark,

I think that would do nicely but even if you had left it at "Aquarium Plants", I'm quite sure the package will go through customs here without being opened for inspection, let alone confiscated. Over here, they are very strict only on drugs and pornography. I hope the plants you are sending don't look like marijuana or anything And don't wrap them with pages torn from Playboy magazine

Loh K L

[FC]

Elatine Triandra looks frail but it is a tough plant, at least that's my experience. When I first got them, the leafs were so small, stems were so thin and roots were hardly attached but once planted in aquarium, they flourished like weed. So, Stephan, try growing them, I beleive they have high chance of serviving.

[imported_stephan]

I have to let you know that even though I put the plants in my best aquarium they were already too far gone to recover. They are still there but completely brown in a sea of green, looking very sorry, just like me

regards
Stephan

[imported_stephan]

You’re not going to believe this. A week ago I decided to look again at the ‘flower buds’ again under a strong lens. I had three. Beneath the outer covering I could see manysmall hazy shapes. Could it be? I put the buds in a plastic container and left them to dry out slowly. They have been dry for three days now. Just a couple of hours ago I looked at the dry round structures again with the lens and pressed on one with the point of a needle. And guess what fell out? Seed – perfect curved Elatine triandra seed! The buds were fruit with the sepals still attached and not flower buds at all! I managed to get out about 30 miniature seed from the three fruits. Very delicate work. So Kwek Leong the Elatine triandra is actually flowering in your tank submerged and actually forming seed. It might explain why the plants in your tank are not doing too well – they may be channeling their energy into the seed production. The seeds might actually be viable since the flowers are hermaphrodite.
I know that Elatine gussonei can flower and form seed even if kept submerged. But there could still be problems: E. gussonei seeds need a ripening period of about 4 months in hot dry weather before they can germinate, only once temperatures cool down again and the winter rains arrive. They will not germinate in the meantime. I do not yet know how to go about germinating the E triandra seeds. They might also need a dry ripening period.
It would help to know what happens in their natural habitat in Asia. May I ask Felixe who has seen what might be E.triandra about the climate of its habitat. Is there a dry period when those ditches dry out completely? If so how long does it last? And any idea of the temperature?
If this works than I believe we could easily solve how to transport the Elatine triandra. I need more than the 30 seeds I have already got though, to see the best conditions they need for germination. I already did this with E. gussonei and wasted some seed before I got it right. KL is it possible to dry off some more Elatine strands with the largest round structures or have you sent me too much of your plants already? If so maybe some other kind soul may donate some strands? Now may be the only time to do it if your plants have fruit only at this time of year.
Seeds should travel very well, in very small packets and in large numbers in their dry pods. This might after all be the best answer to the question in the title of this thread. A little more work, but we're getting there.

Thanks again.
Regards
Stephan, in a very good mood

[timebomb]

KL is it possible to dry off some more Elatine strands with the largest round structures or have you sent me too much of your plants already?

Stephan, if it's the seeds you want, you can have a whole bucket of them My Elatine is deteriorating so rapidly I'm thinking of tearing down the whole tank. I'll send you some soon.

Loh K L

[felixe]

It would help to know what happens in their natural habitat in Asia. May I ask Felixe who has seen what might be E.triandra about the climate of its habitat. Is there a dry period when those ditches dry out completely? If so how long does it last? And any idea of the temperature?

Great to heart that news. Good for you, Stephan.



We have obvious four seasons of the temperate zone.
Winter is a dry season in most of area, and very cold
owing to the northerly wind.

This city where I live in is a valley area, and it has more wide temperature changes between day and night.

The average temperature of this city in January is around -0.3C,
and the average low temperature is around -4.6C.
( http://www.dgb.co.kr/tour/ca_8005.html - Weather of Taegu-City, South Korea )

The drainage which is located in the top-middle of the mountain "Pal-gong"
has more lower temperature because of its altitude.

I think that the temperature of there must be 5C~10C lower than the plain.


So, in my humble guess, their seeds of "Elatinelike plant" that I found must endure at least one or two month,
temperature of -10C to -20C, with ice and snow on top of them,
just like the other Korean native plants do.

[PohSan]

I ordered my Elatine from one of the LFS. The Elatine came in pot so I decided to modify my sponge method a bit in order not to disturb the rooting too much. Following was what I did:

1) I cut away more than 3/4 of the pot. Push the wool lower so that the plant is below the rim of the pot and cut away excess wool. This was to protect the plant from being crushed.



2) Packed the plant into a air-tight bag and into a padded envelope.


3) Sent out the mail.

The mail took 7 days to reach the other side and despite the precaution done on step1, most of the plant was crushed. The good new was there are 3 stalks survived the long journey, now recovering in my friend's tank.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

[imported_stephan]

A few days after drying the seeds I put about 6 seeds in a glass half full of water and floated this in an aquarium (at 22-24C). After another 5 days 4 seeds germinated. Now a couple of weeks later I have 4 seedlings growing very slowly but steadily.

So I guess the best way to transport E.triandra is the simplest. Anyway now i have it too . Thanks to everyone who posted here and sent me private e-mails.

If you do have more info about the Genus Elatine please do let me know.
Thanks.

regards
Stephan Mifsud
from Malta, Europe

[timebomb]

Stephan sent this picture of his Elatine seedling.



I'm amazed that Stephan managed to raise seedlings from the plants I sent. As far as I know, they were pretty dead when they reached him. But I have to say I'm glad I don't have to do the agar thing anymore .

Loh K L